Going all out...
October-8th-2001, 12:42 PM
#1
Protege Newbie
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 41
Going all out...
Ok i know this is a bit of a ricer question... but i've always wanted to run nitrous and i'd like to do so on my protege.
now what i'm wondering is when i get my turbo motor will the nitrous plus turbo be too much because the turbo motor get's great lowend torque right?
next thing i'm wondering is how the **** you run nitrous on a car with a vaf? where the hell does the nozzle go?
and finally if i use a relatively low shot, just for an extra kick in the pants and because i ******* can, is there any particular part that i need to watch for signs of accelerated wear?
oh and while i'm asking... what's the average mileage on a gtx motor? i know they're from japan and that there are laws against anything past 30000 or something like that... does anyone have an idea on howlong one will last in a relatively stock condition? thanks again guys... latas...
now what i'm wondering is when i get my turbo motor will the nitrous plus turbo be too much because the turbo motor get's great lowend torque right?
next thing i'm wondering is how the **** you run nitrous on a car with a vaf? where the hell does the nozzle go?
and finally if i use a relatively low shot, just for an extra kick in the pants and because i ******* can, is there any particular part that i need to watch for signs of accelerated wear?
oh and while i'm asking... what's the average mileage on a gtx motor? i know they're from japan and that there are laws against anything past 30000 or something like that... does anyone have an idea on howlong one will last in a relatively stock condition? thanks again guys... latas...
October-8th-2001, 01:04 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 266
I dont know a whole lot about nitrous. But if the motor you are putting this turbo on wasnt a turbo motor stock and if your gonna run nitrous especially alot your motor isnt going to last near as long as it should. Turbo's are good but you need to have good internals to run a decent amount of boost. Like the mojority of the turbo's for the ricer civics run like 5-7psi which isnt all that much boost. And on top of nitrous that is alot of strain on your engine. I'm not trying to tell you what to do....just think about it.
October-8th-2001, 01:30 PM
#3
Protege God
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Evanston, IL
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Chris, I don't know the average lifespan of the BPT turbo motor from the 323 GTX, but that motor is very strong and designed to be a turbo motor. It's very durable and should last about as long as a NA BPD motor with stock boost. Using nitrous is very similar to adding a turbo to an NA motor. You must be very careful to add enough fuel so the engine doesn't run too lean and detonate.
With a turbo and nitrous you will likely need to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors, and have some means of adding more fuel, and possibly retarding the timing, when the nitrous is activated.
With a turbo and nitrous you will likely need to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors, and have some means of adding more fuel, and possibly retarding the timing, when the nitrous is activated.
October-8th-2001, 04:45 PM
#5
Half-assed sport 20
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 564
I'd take 5-7 boost!
Typically, You'll see about 20hp per PSI of boost (not sure about GTX, just in general). So, 5-7 PSI equates to about 100 to 140HP (at the crank I believe). Where do I sign up?
October-9th-2001, 10:05 PM
#6
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Orlando, Florida
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well i've just always wanted nitrous i guess... maybe i'll use it to bring up the trap speed like you said jesse.
on the gtx motors... how much boost do they run stock? and if i keep them stock the car will do a 15 right? just the way i judge speed on cars... not going to drag this one... thanks...
on the gtx motors... how much boost do they run stock? and if i keep them stock the car will do a 15 right? just the way i judge speed on cars... not going to drag this one... thanks...
October-11th-2001, 04:06 PM
#7
Goodbye everyone
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 383
Turbo + NOS
Well Chris, Having experienced the abillity of the BPT motor along with extensive street and dyno tuning I will tell you this.
Depending on the form of computer control and boost control you plan on using, you will find that the turbo spools very quickly in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear from low rpms. I would not recommend a nitrous shot in 5th gear from 1500 though.
The problem with the turbo is that due to manifold designs and the overall size of the turbo you will start to lose power on the top end. Now this is where you could bring nitrous in but you face 2 problems
1. Overspinning the turbo at high rpms.
In this you will be injecting the nitrous at the 4800rpm point where power is starting to diminish. When doing this you add more material into combustion creating power but at the same time it is also exiting into the turbo, spinning it harder and faster. As of now I do not feel any noticeable power from 6000rpm up, as shown on my dyno sheets as well as the butt dyno.
2. Leaning out the A/F mixtures.
The higher the rpm the more intense the mixture tuning can become, up in the 5500+ range I am pulling out fuel to compensate for the loss of charge from a mass of air equilibrium. By injecting nitrous you would indeed need to feed more fuel, which will be a little harder to tune the way that works without a nitrous controller.
My recomendation is to go with a T3/T4 turbo and larger injectors with engine management. This should provide good spoolup and plenty of top end power.
When I first started street tuning I was putting out 178hp to the wheels, and about 180-190lb ft of torque. After tuning we managed to increase the boost to a safe 15psi and have 204hp to the wheels and 230lb ft of torque. On race gas and with less flow restrictions in the i/c pipes I will most likely see an increase in horsepower up towards 230-250 to the wheels, and my top end back.
Save the nitrous for another day, when you have a T-88 on there and running 8s 1/4's...
Depending on the form of computer control and boost control you plan on using, you will find that the turbo spools very quickly in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear from low rpms. I would not recommend a nitrous shot in 5th gear from 1500 though.
The problem with the turbo is that due to manifold designs and the overall size of the turbo you will start to lose power on the top end. Now this is where you could bring nitrous in but you face 2 problems
1. Overspinning the turbo at high rpms.
In this you will be injecting the nitrous at the 4800rpm point where power is starting to diminish. When doing this you add more material into combustion creating power but at the same time it is also exiting into the turbo, spinning it harder and faster. As of now I do not feel any noticeable power from 6000rpm up, as shown on my dyno sheets as well as the butt dyno.
2. Leaning out the A/F mixtures.
The higher the rpm the more intense the mixture tuning can become, up in the 5500+ range I am pulling out fuel to compensate for the loss of charge from a mass of air equilibrium. By injecting nitrous you would indeed need to feed more fuel, which will be a little harder to tune the way that works without a nitrous controller.
My recomendation is to go with a T3/T4 turbo and larger injectors with engine management. This should provide good spoolup and plenty of top end power.
When I first started street tuning I was putting out 178hp to the wheels, and about 180-190lb ft of torque. After tuning we managed to increase the boost to a safe 15psi and have 204hp to the wheels and 230lb ft of torque. On race gas and with less flow restrictions in the i/c pipes I will most likely see an increase in horsepower up towards 230-250 to the wheels, and my top end back.
Save the nitrous for another day, when you have a T-88 on there and running 8s 1/4's...
October-15th-2001, 11:40 AM
#8
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Orlando, Florida
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well i'm thinking more about it and i'd still want a turbo motor, i guess i'm just going to go with the stock setup at about 12 psi at first and then get a bigger turbo later on and boost like 20. braden i've seen your dyno sheets and all i have to say is jeezus man... that's a lot of lowend for a turbo four...
October-27th-2001, 02:20 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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ok so here's a question... if i was just doing a mild boost setup... and wanted to run nitrous for the fun of it... would it be detrimental? like i'm saying nothing more than a 45 shot... with the haltec i could wire the nitrous to engage a different fuel map correct? i'm just wondering, i'm always the one who does different stuff... 
but that's not to say the different thing is going to help or be a good thing.
and as we're on the subject of going all out i'd like to hit on suspension... specifically the tokico blues for the zx2 trunk kit, what's the mods needed to make them fit the protege? thanks all... peace...
but that's not to say the different thing is going to help or be a good thing.and as we're on the subject of going all out i'd like to hit on suspension... specifically the tokico blues for the zx2 trunk kit, what's the mods needed to make them fit the protege? thanks all... peace...
October-27th-2001, 10:59 AM
#12
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 41
how much for the koni inserts? and to tell you the truth i'd like to get a set of gc coilovers... but i don't think that i'd be able to get the thing cornerweighted.
which brings up another question. why is it nessisary to cornerweight the car when you have coilovers? couldn't i simply set the drop as the same over every wheel and not worry about it? thanks peoples... peace...
which brings up another question. why is it nessisary to cornerweight the car when you have coilovers? couldn't i simply set the drop as the same over every wheel and not worry about it? thanks peoples... peace...
October-27th-2001, 12:04 PM
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Evanston, IL
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The Konis would be expensive because they would need to be custom made. Corner weighting isn't really necessary with coil-overs, in fact most people get them in order to lower their cars for looks. If your goal is ultimate handling however, corner weighting improves the cars balance under all conditions. You can adjust the cars corner weight, front to rear weight, etc. for your desired handling characteristics.