protejay

Thought a better chance Keith would see it if i posted it here....

scroll down a little to see it:

www.flyinmiata.com/projects/new_stuff.asp

the biggest problem i see is our passenger side motor mount possibly being in the way.

also, i'm not in the know about a supercharger's belt and pulley - is it usually connected directly to the crankshaft via its own belt; and if so, how? with a separate pulley that's made to 'bolt' directly to the existing crank pulley??? or..... could simply a 'longer' *alternator* belt be sourced to spin the the supercharger as well??

beachnut

Another good person to comment about this would be m2cupcar (Rob). Let me see if I can get his attention .

protejay

Yep, i was thinking Rob might have some ideas....

here's a thread with some details about the kit:

http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/ultima...c;f=1;t=017144

Traveler

I'm going to try to get one to work later this spring. I bought an Eaton M62 last fall that I'm going to make a manifold and drive for. The clearance should be fine on the passenger side (I've mocked it up with my intake off). The best way to run a drive system, I'm thinking, will be to lower the alternator (custom brackets) and use an idler right above it. Then run the belt to the blower pulley. This would mean a longer belt that would run from the crank to the alternator, then idler, the blower, the water pump and then back to the crank pulley. I'm pretty sure a 4 rib will work fine up to about 10 psi. That's as much as you'll ever run with a roots style blower anyway.

protejay

ahh Traveler....i do appreciate your thoughts/ideas; but i'm wondering about how this kit would fit on a *1st gen* w/the BP for that matter any FWD with the BP *might* be able to use it : 95-98 Pro ES, 91-6 Escort/Tracer with the BP, and the BP Kia Sephia....


i know the kit is not even out yet but it is potentially a very nice power option for us - just trying to make the BP people aware of what's coming from FM.

protejay

hmmm...IF the alternator belt could be used as the 'supercharger belt' as well....and IF the motor mount IS to close to the supercharger's pulley, maybe a spacer - a phenolic spacer - could be fabbed for the manifold and give the clearance that's needed??! at least the space occupied by our VICS manifold *seems* adequate for the setup...

i know i know... i'm crazy even thinking this stuff as the kit isn't even in production and the ONLY way to find out for sure is by having the 'real animal' to work with.

but hey i just gotta have some fun brainstorming the possibilities

all i can say is (just as a turbo also would do) it'd be fun surprising some people with a fast supercharged 1st-gen!! of course in a fwd, this kit might mandate an lsd

m2cupcar

I guess I can tell you about the one on my Miata. I can't really speak for FM- but they're known for their superb products and customer service. I think they're turbos are so popular because they're designed for quality and good power.

I've had an used eaton kit (Jackson Racing) on my Miata for about 40k miles- it went on the car at 110k. This is a low boost kit - about 5-6psi and no intercooler. It raise stock output by about 35% and was designed in the interest of simiplicity to install/remove and longevity - power came after those. It's been on the car for over four years and hasn't cost me any "time" or money except for a belt change. It runs off the crank pulley, using the outermost groove (powersteering). And this is on a 1st (small crank nose) B6. What I like about the superchargers (speaking specifically about the experience with mine) is the "fat" torque curve down low. I'm comparing this to my friend's 265whp turbo Miata. Yes, I like the fact that I can drive right out of any gear at just over 1k rpm.

Much like the Whipple- I think an M62 will be an absolute beast on a Protege- the best of both worlds: shaft snapping torque and bountiful hp up top. The Miata guys are getting 220hp on their BPs with the M62. Imagine that- and without an engine swap. I'll be moving up to the M62 for the Miata which will leave my M45 for the Protege. I was considering something similar to FM's "coldside" manifold, made for the eaton by BRPerformance:
http://brperformance.net/cgi-bin/mer...egory_Code=103
Though nobody has tried it- I really don't see why either one of these kits won't work on a gen1 Pro since there's a ton of room between the firewall and engine, AND they're also both very shallow manifolds to fit under the Miata hood. Throttle response should also be crisp as the blower is nearly bolted on to the side of the engine.

What's nice about the FM design is the intercooler. The BR is the more affordable approach- but at the cost of expandibility and pure potential for power. But you've got to figure that even with the low boost on an Eaton M45 you'll be making what a KL03 transplant would make for far less work (though I do love that motor). And with the M45 you'll keep the stock injectors - only needing a fuel regulator to compensate on boost. I'd also recommend a boost ignition retard control, so timing will be pulled under boost.

I'll report back here with my success on the BR manifold if nobody beats me to it. But it will be a while since I've got the Miata project(s) to contend with first.

rob

protejay

not that a turbo isn't fun and more boost 'optionable', but this definitely would be fun as well!

hope BOTH your projects work out

m2cupcar

Cheaper - sure for the mechanically skilled. But for the weekend mechanic with average mechanical skills, the blower kits are the most simple route to a substantial power increase. I think that's the primary advantage of a blower over other alternatives. For this type of person it's the difference between installing the blower yourself OR paying a tech to do your engine swap. And I'll bet at that point the price difference changes dramatically.

The blower install is incredibly simple- you don't need a jack, you won't even need to get down on the floor. It's basically a manifold swap (not even that on the Miata), a belt swap, tensioners, fuel line "cut in" and a timing adjustment. Surely that's the reason that so many pick these things over the turbo which produces far more power for the price. Start the project Saturday morning and your driving the car Sunday afternoon. - rob

beachnut

So Rob, you feel liking selling your M45? You know you want that M62 for the Pro too!

m2cupcar

Scott- I think you should be a pioneer and pick up one of those eaton M90s on ebay for a couple hundred bucks. Of course you need to work on that hood too- take a look:
http://v6neon.homestead.com/V6SRT.html

beachnut

"Yeap she dun kicked her heals up!"

Going back to Jason's original question - how do you plan on getting the pipe from the blower to the manifold? It seems like the motor mount is in the way, that and all the air conditioning piping. It looks like there's plenty of room on the Miata, but not our Pro's.

m2cupcar

that's the joy of the manifold from BRP -
http://brperformance.net/images/Cold-Side.jpg
There is no crossover pipe since the blower mounts directly on the custom manifold. The blower/manifold assembly is no larger than the original factory manifold. Throttle volume is reduced to next to nothing (less than factory) so throttle response is near instant. The downfall is that it adds a grand to the price of a supercharger kit- but I don't see any other way to get it on the Pro.
-rob

beachnut

Thanks Rob ... I've seen the light now! This has really got me thinking because I fit exactly into the demographic you described - a weekend mechanic with average skills. When contemplating a GTX swap, I have to take two things into consideration: time and money. If I try to save money by doing it myself (if I even could), it would take me an extraordinary amount of time. If I want to save time, I've got to spend the money to let someone else do it. I think personally I fall into the latter situation, so for me, the engine swap would end up costing about the same amount of money. This may not be true for everyone of course.

Although the thought of having +200whp is interesting, I'm not overly concerned about having that much power. If I could get somewhere in the neighborhood of 175whp, I'd be happy. When you look at a stock GTX swap, with labor and all the other things needed (ie. custom exhaust & intercooler, etc.) I think you'd be in the same price range as an M45 SC with the BRP coldside manifold. I also think you'd be in same the power range. But as has been said already, with the SC that's pretty much it as far as expandabilty and further hp increases go, whereas with the GTX you have more possibilites.

Another thing I like about the SC option is that if I decide to go that route, but I've already made other mods like headers, custom exhaust, cams, even intake - I *should* be able to retain them. I'm not so sure about the intake, however it looks like with a dummy throttle body and the positioning of the blower/coldside manifold being roughly the same as the oem intake manifold, I don't see why you couldn't retain your custom intake piping with maybe some slight modification. I would also think that having a nice PRM intake like mine, coupled with an RX-7 vaf would really help the blower to breathe better. Add a Genie header on the exhaust side and flow is even better. Whether a street grind cam upgrade like Webcam or Gude would help much more, I don't know.

Anyway, sorry to go on about this, but you can see that it's really piqued my curiosity! I've seen used M45's for sale for a little over $1K. Too bad you can't find any used BRP coldside manifolds yet - I guess they're just too new on the market still.

beachnut

Ok, I'm doing so serious research here! It looks to me that the BRP coldside manifold maybe have a fitment issue on our Pro's because of it's thickness. If you look at the very first upper mounting stud for the manifold on the Pro, then go straight down, it seems like the BRP manifold is too thick and will hit the top of the motor mount bracket. I suppose it's possible that you could grind out the bracket some, it's pretty thick right there. Here's some pics of a guy's install on his Miata: