Keith Lennnop

I am just wondering if anyone makes a supercharger for the P5, I did a search and nothing comes up. I am debating about one of these cars but I need more power than what it has to begin with. I think that superchargers are more efficient and reliable if the setup is done correctly. Any ifo is appreciated, help a newbie out!

nramsey

Remember, it all depends on what type of supercharger you're talking about. There are more than one type, and all have very different characteristcs.

Keith Lennnop

nramsey, you beat me to it. Also to get a nice smooth/linear powerband I have seen superchargers do a better job than most turbos. I am looking for something that is bolt on, improves power at all RPM's, very reliable, and can be a daily driver without having to constantly tune it. That is why I would like a supercharger. It seems like all these turbos that I am reading about are all in the works, and I haven't seen any dyno plots. Does anyone have more info on some of the turbo kits out there that will fit what I am looking for. If so post some links for me would you or drop me a email. Thanks!!

Keith...

nramsey

In my opinion both turbos and superchargers can be very reliable. The big reason you hear folks are always tuning and tweaking their turbos is that they CAN, easily. With a turbo you can just adjust the wastegate, and bam, more boost. With a blower you have to upgrade pullies etc and even then sometimes that will put you way out of the blower's efficient range. Turbos are generally more tollerant of higher boost, to a point.

For this reason, turbos are more easily suited to the "tuner freaks" that are always trying to squeek out those last few horsepower. You can leave them running low boost and be just fine, but most people don't have that kinda willpower.

Most folks with SCs either don't want to tweak, or can't afford it, so they just install it and leave it alone.

At this point it's really a moot point as I don't think there are any supercharger kits for the P5s (that I have seen anyways). If you want a dead reliable forced induction system I highly recommend you pay close attention to the BEGI/FlyinMiata turbo kit when it's released. They have been doing Miata turbos for over 10 years and have a repuation in the Miata world for having the most reliable kits, and the best customer support around.

BTW, I had a turbo on my Miata for a bit over two years running up to 13.5 PSI (dynoed at 215 at the rear wheels). Ended up taking it off cause it made the car too fast and tempermental. It kinda took the "Miata" out of the Miata. As folks often say, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Just something else to think about

ProtegeES

uhmm.... If you ask me, I'd rather have a fast car than a slow POS anyday!

Traveler

I don't know. My last project car was WAY faster than just about anything you can buy right now and it was hardly any fun to drive slow. It was fun as hell once you found a place to get into triple digits, but how often is that? I was going to get arrested if I'd kept it. I actually have a lot of fun in my Pro because it's a kick to push it. My last project car didn't even start to breathe until you were taking 30 MPH corners 70MPH at entry, and 95 at the exit. By the time you were pushing the limits you either knew what you were doing or you were going to be dead soon.

nramsey

Exactly. It was a blast for a while, but since touching the gas for more than 3 seconds left me going over every speedlimit in the country, it was just not much fun to drive on the street, mainly because you just could never drive it hard. That's half the fun of having a good handling car...running at the limit and feeling like you're Mario Andretti...not nessisarily BEING as fast as Mario.

But not everyone agrees and that's fine.

Keith Lennnop

I have been keeping an eye on that flyin miata turbo kit. That seems like a really nice setup, but I was just wondering if there were any superchargers out there. If I would purchase a P5 I would definately have to do something to it. It would seem like such a step down from my CSVT for power and speed. I drive my Tracer LTS every once in a while during the summer to make sure everything is still running good and even that seems like it is faster than the P5. I drove my friends P5 this last weekend and he also has a (92?) Protoge. I asked him which one would win in a race and he said the P5, but I really don't know. I really like the P5, but the speed just isn't there. So undecided, so undecided

PR5T

This is a myth. A properly designed turbocharger system will make more horsepower and torque across the powerband then a equally sized supercharger. This myth comes from the big turbo syndrome. To many people and companies use turbos that are way to big in size. An improperly sized turbo (too big) can create an incredable amount of lag, therefore reinforcing the myth. But if you size a supercharger incorrectly you'll have problems too.

One of the big factors today is emissions (relating to the turbo vs. supercharger debate). Most cars today have multiple cats, and multiple o2 sensors, and narrow tunning windows, to be obd2 compliant. Intigrating a turbosystem into a new car without touching the emissions system (federal law does not allow emissions systems to be replaced with aftermarket equipment until 50k) can be a nightmare. That doesn't mean you can't make a good turbosystem work and still pass emissions, because you can. But as the emissions testing becomes better (worse for the car guy) it will be harder to get around tests without complying at every level.

This is where superchargers are gainning ground. Because they have much more flexiblity for installation without altering emissions systems. So the development of good supercharging systems is going to need to take place in order to keep the aftermarket performance market growing. Although I hope to see the development of emissions legal turbosystems continue too.

T.

turboge

Hasn't anyone seen the MP3 and P5 Supercharged Area51 cars? I have a few pics if you need em.

Farsyde

supercharger + low displacement engine = waste of money.

i just think a turbo setup looks so much more impressive in our cars than a super does.

Keith Lennnop

Post please or email them to me at keith@thinkingcapdesign.com

Thanks!!

PR5T

You can compare, even a roots type compressor. Look a supercharger in all forms is a compressor, just like a turbocharger. They will support verying boost and cfm levels, at a certain efficiency level. In my statement I was refering to mis-sized comparisons. For example, you wouldn't put a roots 6-71 blower on a two liter engine, just as you wouldn't put a t25 turbo on a viper. But every compressor is rated to supply a certain amount of air, and turbochargers do it more efficiently. A roots type supercharger is about 50% efficent, where as a t04-e is 78%. If you use a roots type blower that can support the same hp as a t0-4e on the same sized motor, the turbo will make more power and torque throughout the entire powerband then the supercharger will. And if you think that I am wrong, then you better get ready to challange the entire world of thermodynamic efficencies, because that is scientific law. If you skew the test into testing mis-sized compressors, then of course you can get the results your looking for (comparing a 50cu/in roots compressor to a t70 compressor on a 1.8 liter engine, for example). The blower will have a better powerband because it is properly sized, verses a turbo that is incorectly sized for that engine. But if you compare apples to apples and properly size the turbocharger compressor to the application, you will see the truth.


It is impossible to make full boost on a supercharger at idle. Think about that statement for a minute and you will see the light. If a supercharger is spun at 20k rpm at an engine rpm of 1,000 rpm than at an engine rpm of 5,000 rpm the supercharger will be spinning faster, making more boost. A roots type supercharger that is making positive pressure at idle is either a top fuel dragster or a street car that will have a destroyed engine once it reaches a 4,000 rpm. For street aplications (i.e. all jackson racing superchargers) no roots type supercharger makes full boost at idle. Have you ever even driven a supercharged car? I have, (jackson racing honda, and miata) and I can tell you they idle in vacuum. As I have said before, a roots type charger, is a compressor just like a turbocharger, it must follow the same thermodynamic laws as all compressors do. You could make a turbo have boost at idle, just as you could by overdriving the supercharger at idle. Neither compressor will live at high rpm. The supercharger would crumble, and the turbocharger would over spin it's bearings.

This is a statement that can only be true if the data is skewed towards the superchargers direction (improper sizing of the turbo)


Throttle response is usually terrible on a supercharged small displacement engine. Because you have so much drag caused by the supercharger. But throttle response has so many factors involved; tuning, backpressure, cams, map vs. mass air, flywheel weight, etc, that it is hard to compare apples to apples.

T.

Farsyde

damn now that's what i call a post

Keith Lennnop

WOW...., OK then, order up!!