hihoslva

As I posted in other threads, I've finally set up a system in my P5.

I'm running a Koiiler (ummm...bargain) amp to a 12" Kenwood sub, and I have 6.5" all around.

Some of the middle bass tones seem to be lacking a bit. The sub puts out plenty of bass for me down low, but (I'm guessing on the number) around 150Hz there is a "hole" in my sound.

I don't want to crank up the crossover - the sound gets muddy and I don't want to fry the sub. I think I already have it set a little too high (over the recommended 80Hz), but I'm really not pushing thunder, so a little extra Hz should be okay for me.

Would a 10" instead of the 12" speaker get me some better frequencies? I'd gladly give up some of the low-low-down bass for some of what is missing. I'm not really trying to thump - I'm more of a rock music listener.

Do I have to suck it up and buy a better amp? Still, wouldn't I need to crank the crossover on that, too?

I'm using a pickup truck-style (small, "behind the seat" type) sealed wedge box, and it's all I've got room for, so that's got to stay, bit it can easily be modded to accept a different size speaker.

Oh, and a sincere thanks to all whose advice I've gotten here, past, present, and future - I don't know what I'd do without some of the info I've gotten in this forum.

azrakain

I use a JL 12W3 and mostly listen to rock music. Its powered by a Rockford Fosgate 500.2 amp. Usually you would want a 10" sub for tight bass that is in rock music. The cone size is suited for that bass. However if you want to get a good speaker that will sound decent around the range then you will need a new amp as well. The reason i went with a 12" is that to get the same sound i would need x3 JL 10w0's (a lesser speaker) to get the same sound (quality and quantity) and the one 12" was cheaper and requires a smaller box. Which Kenwood are you using? The one with the blue polymer cone or the DB+?? my box has the sub firing towards the rear hatch and the box is custom shapped to match the back of the seat. It cost me $90 for the custom box which is cheaper than a prebuilt one that is NOT purpose built.

I have noticed a lot on this board that people don't seem to use their local resources (sound shops). These shops have very knowledgable staff and can usually get you out the door for what you buy the stuff online for....and you can hear what you're buying. At these shops the price they list is not final....they have about 15% to play with. Don't buy your audio stuff at circuit city or best buy as their quality is not as good....and quality is what brings the nice sound.

I'm done since this post is way to long. Sorry for rambling

mazdaspeedwest

you may gain a little bit by swaping the 12 for a 10, but you should be looking for your 150khz in your 6.5's. (i personally prefer 10s over 12s)
A 2-way nice electronic xover will do a world of difference....i happen to have an old Coustic XM-3 for sale if interested...

it's also very possible the "bargain amp" has a dip at around 150hz or so too.....doubt it to be audible though....

naki831

local sound shops are a good place to start, if you have basic questions. But don't believe everything you hear from them because they feed you a lot of sh*t. They're knowledgeable on the products that they carry, but usually that's the extent of their knowledge. You'll get biased opinions and if you tell them about another company's product, they'll probably tell you that it sucks and that theirs is better. Try looking for car audio forums, there are a lot of knowledgeable people who will help you out.

azrakain

I would agree with that, but if you talk to more than one shop then you will get multiple opinions and the different stores will carry multiple product lines.

hihoslva

azrakain, you're using the same deck as me, so I think we can compare notes on the right level.

I'm using Kenwood 6.5" in all doors - they're two-ways, model 1666s I think. Not very pricey, but at least they're not paper. The sub is a model 3003 - it is the blue polymer type - nice speaker.

Since we can compare nicely, I'm wondering about your sound. Do you find that you get nice, full frequency output even without the sub? I installed a small appliance-type rocker switch near the shifter - hooked up to the remote turn on lead, so I can turn the sub on and off - we all have to listen to the radio, Howard Stern, and traffic reports sometimes, right?

I still think the wires in the car suck, and probably sap some power because they are so damn thin.

Is your amp powering everything, or just the sub? I've been hearing a lot about these MB Quartz speakers, are they worth the price?

Oh, and don'tworry about the length of your posts! I need this info, and it's great to get it from those who have the hands on (ears on?) experience.

mazdaspeedwest

MB Quart are great speakers, same with Boston Acoustics, Infinity, Polk, etc... personally i find those brands to be a bit on the bright side for my tastes, but thats JMHO, i've had some of each in my time....although i now run DEI speakers (Directed Audio, the Viper Alarm ppl) and i will put these speakers up against any of those brands. Their Studio line of Neodymium magnets are the lightest speakers you've even held and to top it off, they are nice and shallow for us 1st genners with shallow depth front doors. I urge you to check them out (amps, speakers and subs) as you will not be disapointed. DEI audio has been gaing mad respect in the competetition circuit in both SQ and DB Drags.

DEI

azrakain

I feel that the i get great response across the board....no flat spots to speak of at least. I didn't have a sub at first, but my friends thought i had one 10" in the back. This was with the bass about half up. I bought a sub and the new punch amp comes with a bass adjustment **** on it to adjust at the drivers seat. Its really nice. The amp is powering just the sub....I am waiting to get the 400.4 Punch amp for the speakers in the doors. I love the MBQuarts and think that they are the best speakers for the price (component would be the best though). I have infinity references in my civic and a friend has polk and infinity kappas in his focus and he's dissapointed that he didn't get my speakers. When i went to best buy and circuit city and told them that i was considering buying something from them, but told them that i had already listened to the MBQuarts they told me not to waste my time listening to their speakers as there was no comparison. THEY ARE DEFINETLY WORTH THE PRICE! Check 'em out if possible.

hihoslva

Ok, guys - I've been checking out the MB Quart and the DEI speakers. I'm just looking at specs right now - I haven't had the chance to hear any of them yet.

From what I'm seeing, the efficiency (sensitivity) of these speakers is less than what I already have. I think I might be too obsessed with this number, but when using only deck power, shouldn't I try to get the highest sensitivity I can? While I am certainly looking for quality sound, I'm also looking for sheer volume. Shouldn't a higher efficiency speaker just be plain louder?

I'm running Kenwoods with a sensitivity of 91. The DEIs and MBs are 88 and 89. Would it be fair to expect that, while they may sound better, they will not be as loud as what I have? And that cranking them up to the ear splitting levels I (occasionally) enjoy will distort them, possibly from the deck? Azrakain, you wrote that you turn up to 22 on the Kenwood 8017. Is that really loud with the MBs? It's just not that powerful with my Kenwoods, until I get up over 25. Does more than 22 start to distort?

I think I'll be swapping out some of this brand new equipment I've installed, because I'm not totally satisfied yet. I'm happy, just not fully satisfied. I don't want to make any more guesses or "mistakes", so all this info is really helping the decision making process.

BTW, Azrakain, I'm still running the stock exhaust. I'm not trying to drown anything out just yet - I just like it LOUD!

Oh, and Happy Holidays to all.

naki831

If you get the Quartz, you won't be disappointed. Run a small amp to it and you won't be worrying about it not getting loud enough for you. Actually are you looking for separates or coaxials. I haven't heard MB coaxs so I don't know how much better they will be than what you already have. The separates though are quality.

hihoslva

Well, I've got a set of tweeters in the front that I am pretty happy with, so I don't think it'd be a problem running some nice components. I'd even consider going back to the OEM speaker size, although I think I'm getting more out of the 6.5" I put in the front than I will from a 5x7.

A small amp, you say? Well, if I'm going to get an amp for the door speakers, and I'm thinking about replacing my sub amp (jeez I just bought all this stuff,and I'm already thinking about ditching it!), what about one full-range amp. Something that can run everything? Or would I be better off with two amps - one each dedicated to the doors and the sub? And how do the MBs do with deck power?

I think I'm gonna spend more than I wanted to, but I just can't seem to help myself......

mazdaspeedwest

if that is the avenue you choose, which i think is a cost effective, space saving and nice way to amplify your system. Surfing DEI's site you may have notice the two 5-ch amps they have, models 350 and 650. Complete independent control of each channel and they have a front dash mount gaiin control, for "shift on the fly" bass tuning.

you mentioned you had tweeters up front....so i gather they run in parallel with the coax's you put in there? you may be suppling the radios amp with less than 4ohms, therefore, upping it's power, but drastically reducing it's clip point and lifespan.

Personnally, i have never took a radios power output into consideration, i could care less if it has 10watts or 100watts, as i always use amplifiers. Using amplifiers greatly improves the overall feel to the music and you get a whole lot of control over the system too. In audio it's ok to be a control freak

azrakain

To be honest i didn't pay that much attention to the sensitivity rating. It is probably under rated as many high end components are. Rockford Fosgates amps are know to be under rated a lot as a matter of fact. I am going to amplify my speakers with a rockford fosgate 400.4 after I get my lcd's installed in the dash and headrests. With the volume at 22 its loud enough for my ears. There is not any distoration; I just don't like it louder than that. That is the setting i use when listening to cds. On the radio it's like 25 or 26. When I installed the speakers I questioned about putting 6½'s in the front as well but they recommended against it as they said that the 5x7's will give a different sound range therefore the sound would be more full. Not sure exactly how much this would change though. The rockford punch and power amp line has a bass control remote **** as well to adjust the gain on the fly in the cabin.

mazdaspeedwest

the only advantage to the 5x7 over th 6.5 is cone area, as the 5x7 is slightly larger....(but not by much at all, we're talking milimeters) but in my experience, a round speaker will always sound better than an oval one....don't know the exact physics behind it, but it's been tested.

hihoslva

Umm, well not to argue with you, you've been real helpful, but a 6.5" has more area than a 5x7, mathematically speaking.

I actualy posted this in another thread for some guy, but here goes:

area of a circle = radius x radius x Pi (3.14)

area of an ellipse = long radius x short radius x Pi

So a 6.5" speaker is: 3.25 x 3.25 x 3.14 = 33.17 sq in.

and a 5x7" is: 2.5 x 3.5 x 3.14 = 27.48 sq in.

The 6.5 has about 17% more cone area.

Not that this is really pertinent to this discussion, but I had to mention it.

Also, I am running the tweeters "in-line" with the front speakers - basically they are spliced into the front speaker wires. Wouldn't this INCREASE the ohm load on the deck, rather than decrease it? How could adding MORE speakers decrease the resisitance across the circuit? Doesn't it add more resisitance?

Actually, I did not consider the power robbing aspect of the tweeters when discussing the distortion, either. They could definitely be a culprit in my not getting the volume I'm after.

Merry Christmas