conton

I have questions and need some sound help.

I have the first stage of my 01 ES audio project completed. I installed a JVC-KD-SX870 deck, Infinity Kappa 572.3cf speakers front and rear, and a nice 4 channel Sony X-plod amp to drive them. I also dynamated the front doors and installed some sound deadening material to the doors and floor.

Unfortunately I'm not real pleased with the sound so far. It seams like there are frequency's missing from the mix. Its clear as a bell and loud enough, but it just seams like something is missing. There is no real punch, no magic. It's almost like there is an eq and someone cut out a few key frequencies. Its not awful, but not what I would expect from those components. I would like it to sound at least as good as my old 98 Chevy truck(all stock components).

Is it the acoustics of the car itself?
Maybe my speakers are a bad match for the car?
Is it an imaging problem?
Is it just in need of a sub and some strategically mounted tweeters?
Does the deck suck?
Are the infinity's all hype?

Help!
Thanks

JJB

I used to have set of Infinity Kappas in my last car (6x9 on rear deck, 4x6 in kick plates) and I found that they were generally a bit tinny sounding. The low end response of the 6x9s was impressive however!

Of course audio is a very very very subjective subject.

conton

They are a little tinny. And it seams like there isn't enough low-midrange punch to smooth out the tin

JJB

I would speculate that the lack of mid-range might very well have to do with the location of the speakers. I am not positive, but I would assume that the '01 ES has the front speakers in the doors and the rears on the deck.

If that assumption is true, then the fronts are the ones that are contributing most of the mid/high sounds that you get to hear as the driver and they are aimed directly into the car basically at your feet. Highs and mids being very directional would be quickly muffled and might result in that apparent lack of sound.

If the rears are also in the doors then the whole thing is even worse!

In my last car (Chevy Beretta) the kick plates angle the speakers upwards and into the cabin, I was always very impressed how well the stock system sounded for what it was... in my P5 I really do miss the Infinitys and Z919 as I took the old car out for a spin and really noticed how lacking the audio is in the new car.

When I get around to putting speakers in I am going to seriously consider enhancing things with some dash or high door mounted tweeters that would allow the space to be filled a bit more effectively.

Good luck!

conton

That was my fear. My first thought when I got the car was that the stock speaker location was bad for imaging. I was hoping that a nice set of speakers and some serious clean wattage would take car of it somewhat. Guess it didn't.

I'm hoping that when I get a set of tweeters up on the doors and a nice punchy sub in the trunk that things will even out. I could always do a component system and place the speakers in q-logic kick panels???

The stock speakers had a plastic shroud on the top of them. I wonder if that helped with some of the mid loss?

hihoslva

I've always found that Kenwood speakers have nice imaging qualities. They seem offer plenty of midrange, and respectable highs and lows.

I had a setup in my old Camaro with 6x9's in the rear deck, custom 5 1/4"s in the center console (almost under the dash, kinda opposite from the door-side kick panels - not a great location but did add some mids, highs, and volume) and tweets mounted up high on the A-pillar. The system sounded EXCELLENT - even without a sub. Very loud and clear, with only some bass missing (which I solved with a 10" sub in the trunk - only part not Kenwood).

I don't listen to extremely bass-heavy music (rap, etc.) so the heart-pounding thump was not my thing, but it was there when I needed it with the sub.

I had tried many speaker brands before settling with the Kenwoods (Pioneer, Infinity...) and was most impressed with the K'woods. They were a good value too - soem of the others I tried were twice the price.

I'll be Kenwood-ing in my P5 shortly. Small sub in the trunk, 6-1/2" in all the doors (they'll fit with very minor mods or those retrofit plates) and tweets in the window corners.

Try a different brand-they vary wildly.

naki831

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't installing nice speakers in the rear mess with the sound? You want most of the sound to be coming from the front with not too much interfering in the rear. I have the same kappa speakers and although they do sound pretty nice, they don't work well because of the speaker placement in proteges. A good set of separates would help out a lot though in my opinion. That and a sub or two.

hihoslva

While the speaker placement in the P5 isn't that great, upgrading them can't hurt.

I've also read good things about replacing the stock head unit - that the factory speakers sound much better when powered by a better source.

I'm going to be replacing all four factory speakers, as well as adding a reasonable sub and some tweeters. My thought is that better speakers will provide some better definition to the sound, and they will be able to provide some more of the middle bass that the factory speakers lack. I'm preferential to Kenwood speakers, so that's what I'll be putting in - doors, sub, and tweets. Your preferences may differ.

I'm also going to TRY to position the front speakers in a better position - I'd like to try to angle them in the opening (maybe a few washers under one side, a little bending of the speaker frame, etc.), so that they face more toward the seats. A little positioning can go a long way in making the sound better, especially for midrange and highs. I'll have to see how much angle I can get once I the doors pulled apart.

Oh, and as far as the Infinity's go - I agree that they can sound a little tinny. Kinda like they were hooked up to an EQ with all of the mids taken out. I even had an 88 Chrysler with a stock Infinity system. Those speakers were individually amped - they each had a small amp mounted to the back of the speaker. Same crap - my car was a convertible, and I had to revamp the whole system just to hear the music with the top down.

JJB

I am not an expert on the topic but here are my thoughts on this. I would say that adding the rear speaker are indeed going to move what the center of the soundstage that you create is. I.e. it is going to cause some audio to come from the back of the car so you have to deal with how that ineracts with the sound from the front.

In a perfect environment, like a listening room, the case that you want sound from the front and then "fill" from around the other parts would be true.. this is why people with home surround systems spend many bucks on getting just the right speaker and play with the delays in the audio on the surround processors. Even an average home room with the right speaker placement can sound pretty good without spending a fortune.

However, an average car is pretty much as far as you can get from a good sound stage (this is truly the case of the P5 with it's stock door speaker placements). In this case I think that the the rear speakers help to fill in the sound that is deadend by all of the stuff in the car: low frequency road noise, high frequency road noise, wind noise, the dude talking to loud in the passenger seat, etc.

In my case, for the time being, the stock speakers are staying in the car until I can squirrel away some cash to get better ones... once that happens I would say that the most bang for the buck will be to get some decent component speakers for the front (get those tweeters up to ear level!) and then something to fill in the back that is not too bad... the additional punch of a sub would be ideal as it would remove the bass burden from the door speakers and keep the sound in the car instead of in the sheet metal (unless that is what you like ) but I am not sure that I will go that far with it...

Ahhh... audio... where you can spend a whole crap load of money and still have someone argue that it sounds like crap!

mazdaspeedwest

you don't need the tweeters at ear level for good staging.... location, location, location.

kick panels are the favored spot, as the distance becomes much more equal-length from both sides.

JJB

I guess I would agee with that as my old Chevy still sounds better than my P5! the kick plates give a nice upward angle into the listening space.

Sadly I do not see a simple way of adding kick plates to the P5 and the little plastic holders at the interior of the mirrors will make excellent mounting points for tweeters.
I can attest to that... they sure do sound a lot better with a good head unit driving them!