Help me decide on a sub& combo!
July-20th-2003, 03:49 AM
#211
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Location: Houston
Posts: 67
Ok since I was planning on that same m500 amp for my sub... anybody have any ideas for something in a similar price range that will work as well? For my sanity I don't want to deal with using a multichannel for it.. just a mono..unless somebody feels like explaining how i'd do that)
I don't wanna wait till august either Intruder, can't blame ya there hehe. It sucks that it's on backorder.. I know if I were you I most definatly wouldn't be happy either.. heck I'd be on the phone with them forever till they solved my problem for me.
Kyle
I don't wanna wait till august either Intruder, can't blame ya there hehe. It sucks that it's on backorder.. I know if I were you I most definatly wouldn't be happy either.. heck I'd be on the phone with them forever till they solved my problem for me.
Kyle
July-20th-2003, 11:22 AM
#212
get orvillized! WTF?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: I am here --> x
Posts: 948
August is right around the corner, but who knows how many back orders must be filled and if there will be any left after that. You can use a multichannel amp and bridge it to x amount of watts times 2 channels. I don't blame you for not wanting to wait. Intruder's story is a nightmare from hell! Intruder, you ought to send them a copy of that so that they will see what people are saying about their service. Maybe they will send you TWO amps. I doubt that seriously though.
MisterT
MisterT
July-20th-2003, 12:42 PM
#213
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Location: Fremont, CA
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Originally posted by MisterT
August is right around the corner, but who knows how many back orders must be filled and if there will be any left after that. You can use a multichannel amp and bridge it to x amount of watts times 2 channels. I don't blame you for not wanting to wait. Intruder's story is a nightmare from hell! Intruder, you ought to send them a copy of that so that they will see what people are saying about their service. Maybe they will send you TWO amps. I doubt that seriously though.
MisterT
August is right around the corner, but who knows how many back orders must be filled and if there will be any left after that. You can use a multichannel amp and bridge it to x amount of watts times 2 channels. I don't blame you for not wanting to wait. Intruder's story is a nightmare from hell! Intruder, you ought to send them a copy of that so that they will see what people are saying about their service. Maybe they will send you TWO amps. I doubt that seriously though.
MisterT
They don't seem to be willing to send me ANYTHING other than what I paid for. Maybe cut me a deal on another amp, but that's it. I mean... I want my 500M! Why would I want to get another amp when I've thought long and hard and made a very difficult decision. Blue says I should get the Tsunami DB1100, but I know nothing about that company. Obviously they don't make their own amps, and there is no warranty on the DB1100 from Avionixx...
Not that I've heard anything about Avionixx, but the 500M seems like a good amp. I don't know what to do...
July-20th-2003, 12:48 PM
#214
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I don't think I've posted this before.
This is their last email. I asked them to explain what the damping factor is...
This is their last email. I asked them to explain what the damping factor is...
No problem Martin,
While I'm not the best at these sort of explanations I'll do my best and
hopfully help. This link explains it much better than I can I believe.
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/damping%20factor.pdf
Some truly believe that the higher damping factor the 'truer' reproduction
you will get. In most car environments however IMO the difference in damping
factor is pretty negigable to myself. I don't believe it makes THAT big of a
difference in a install driving down the road with the windows open
listening to dylan or the like at full tilt.
The 500m really is a very nice amplifier. We have a lot of success with it.
It's really a personally preference thing at any angle you look at it and
the tsunami probably wouldn't sound tonally much different or any different
to me, but we all have different ears.
If I can try and elaborate on any of the above let me know and I'll try and
do a little better.
Hopefully we can get this worked out before the weekend so there isn't
anymore waiting for you.
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Cc: <martin@pixelmaths.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> Hi,
>
> I have thought long and hard about it and there is a reason for me to
choose
> the Avionixx 500M amplifier. The main reason is because it is a MONO amp.
It
> is specifically designed to operate as a MONO amp and will supposedly work
> better with my sub. I have no other plans for this amplifier, so I don't
> need extra channels - just one. Another factor that tipped the scales for
me
> was the amp's "damping factor". I do not know what this means and in what
> units it is measured (if any), but people have told me that the greater
this
> number is, the more control I will have over the sub - which is a good
> thing. The 500M has one of the highest "damping factor"s I've seen in an
> amp. Now, if you could explain to me exactly what the damping factor is,
and
> to what it relates, I may change my mind and go for a different amp.
>
> My final two choices were the Avionixx 500M and the Tsunami DB1100. I
chose
> the Avionixx amp because it has a 3 year warranty, and I had no idea what
> the damping factor of the Tsunami was... My decision wasn't easy and I was
> starting to love this amp as my own already. You kind of "broke my heart"
> when you told me that it's been backordered.
>
> So, if you could explain to me what the damping factor is, I'd be very
> grateful.
>
> Thank you,
> Martin
While I'm not the best at these sort of explanations I'll do my best and
hopfully help. This link explains it much better than I can I believe.
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/damping%20factor.pdf
Some truly believe that the higher damping factor the 'truer' reproduction
you will get. In most car environments however IMO the difference in damping
factor is pretty negigable to myself. I don't believe it makes THAT big of a
difference in a install driving down the road with the windows open
listening to dylan or the like at full tilt.
The 500m really is a very nice amplifier. We have a lot of success with it.
It's really a personally preference thing at any angle you look at it and
the tsunami probably wouldn't sound tonally much different or any different
to me, but we all have different ears.
If I can try and elaborate on any of the above let me know and I'll try and
do a little better.
Hopefully we can get this worked out before the weekend so there isn't
anymore waiting for you.
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Cc: <martin@pixelmaths.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> Hi,
>
> I have thought long and hard about it and there is a reason for me to
choose
> the Avionixx 500M amplifier. The main reason is because it is a MONO amp.
It
> is specifically designed to operate as a MONO amp and will supposedly work
> better with my sub. I have no other plans for this amplifier, so I don't
> need extra channels - just one. Another factor that tipped the scales for
me
> was the amp's "damping factor". I do not know what this means and in what
> units it is measured (if any), but people have told me that the greater
this
> number is, the more control I will have over the sub - which is a good
> thing. The 500M has one of the highest "damping factor"s I've seen in an
> amp. Now, if you could explain to me exactly what the damping factor is,
and
> to what it relates, I may change my mind and go for a different amp.
>
> My final two choices were the Avionixx 500M and the Tsunami DB1100. I
chose
> the Avionixx amp because it has a 3 year warranty, and I had no idea what
> the damping factor of the Tsunami was... My decision wasn't easy and I was
> starting to love this amp as my own already. You kind of "broke my heart"
> when you told me that it's been backordered.
>
> So, if you could explain to me what the damping factor is, I'd be very
> grateful.
>
> Thank you,
> Martin
July-20th-2003, 12:53 PM
#215
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 456
The Tsunami is a class-D amp. It's more effeicient, but it won't sound as good as the A/B 500M. Right MisterT? 
If you ask the eD person, he will probably say that there isn't much difference and very few people are able to make any difference between the two....
If you ask the eD person, he will probably say that there isn't much difference and very few people are able to make any difference between the two....
July-20th-2003, 07:19 PM
#216
get orvillized! WTF?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: I am here --> x
Posts: 948
I don't know if it is a better amp or not, but the Avionixx has a better warranty. From reading ED's website on the Tsunami, they sound like they would be good, but ED is only concerned about moving them out of there hence the warranty is what 6 months or something? Otherwise, the Tsunami wouldn't be a bad choice. Blue may know more about it than I do. He was the one who pointed me in ED's direction with their subs. Otherwise, I would have never have heard of them. (just seen their stuff in a few protege installs on SoundDomain). I know right about now, you will almost take any thing from the way things have been going. I doubt too, that ED would match the warranty with the Avionixx's for the trouble you have gone through. They haven't offered any thing for that matter for the trouble you have gone through!
MisterT
MisterT
July-21st-2003, 12:13 AM
#217
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Location: Fremont, CA
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Here's a short progress report.
I drilled holes for the sub and it fits nicely - no surprises.
I also finished the "light control unit". Basically, I put all the stuff from the prototype board on a PCB. I disassembled the light's power supply and mounted its PCB on top of mine. I put several connectors on my PCB, so I can easily remove it without having to remove the LED or the switch, or whatever else (the external power connector which I have not put yet).
Here are some pics:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I used a single LED. Well, it's actually 2 LEDs in 1. It's a dual-color LED - red/green. It's perfect for my needs, and saves space on the speaker-terminal plate.
The back of the box...
... and the inside of the box.
The "to do" list:
- put a power connector on the terminal plate (for the light)
- mount the CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent light)
- wire the sub to the terminal
- spray the vent walls black
- seal the box
- cover the box with carpet
Questions:
- do I have to solder the speaker wire to the terminals or just crimp it to a connector?
Well, that's it for today.
I drilled holes for the sub and it fits nicely - no surprises.
I also finished the "light control unit". Basically, I put all the stuff from the prototype board on a PCB. I disassembled the light's power supply and mounted its PCB on top of mine. I put several connectors on my PCB, so I can easily remove it without having to remove the LED or the switch, or whatever else (the external power connector which I have not put yet).
Here are some pics:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I used a single LED. Well, it's actually 2 LEDs in 1.
It's a dual-color LED - red/green. It's perfect for my needs, and saves space on the speaker-terminal plate. The back of the box...
... and the inside of the box.
The "to do" list:
- put a power connector on the terminal plate (for the light)
- mount the CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent light)
- wire the sub to the terminal
- spray the vent walls black
- seal the box
- cover the box with carpet
Questions:
- do I have to solder the speaker wire to the terminals or just crimp it to a connector?
Well, that's it for today.
July-21st-2003, 01:12 AM
#218
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Location: Fremont, CA
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Hmm, come to think about it... this "light control unit" might not be a very good idea. Having a transformer right next to the speaker wire isn't very smart. 
I'll test it and I'm gonna relocate it if there's any sort of noise.
I'll test it and I'm gonna relocate it if there's any sort of noise.
July-21st-2003, 05:49 AM
#219
get orvillized! WTF?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: I am here --> x
Posts: 948
Originally posted by Intruder
Questions:
- do I have to solder the speaker wire to the terminals or just crimp it to a connector?
Questions:
- do I have to solder the speaker wire to the terminals or just crimp it to a connector?
MisterT
July-21st-2003, 12:27 PM
#220
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
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Originally posted by MisterT
You can solder it to the terminals, but I wouldn't recommend it in case you have to remove your sub for any reason or something. Just crimp it and slide it on the posts. Also, how much heat does that neon put out? Will it be able to handle the vibrations of your sub being inside a small area? Lastly, how would noise enter the system from your project? As long as it is not near any RCAs you should be okay. Power wires are probably small any way. I don't know, just curious.
MisterT
You can solder it to the terminals, but I wouldn't recommend it in case you have to remove your sub for any reason or something. Just crimp it and slide it on the posts. Also, how much heat does that neon put out? Will it be able to handle the vibrations of your sub being inside a small area? Lastly, how would noise enter the system from your project? As long as it is not near any RCAs you should be okay. Power wires are probably small any way. I don't know, just curious.
MisterT
Since I am not placing it near the RCAs, you said it should be OK, but still I don't think that's the case. The transformer generates a magnetic field as well (that's the main job of the transformer actually - generate a magnetic filed by with the primary coil and induce current in the second one
). This magnetic field will surely induce some current (although very low) in the speaker wires. I don't know how low or high this induced current will be, but I am sure that something will enter the speaker wires. 
We'll see...
The heat is negligible. It is just like a normal fluorescent bulb - it gets warm to the touch, but that's all.
Vibrations? What vibrations?
I think the light will be OK. It has a protective plexiglass tube, so if the light itself bursts, I won't have a mess inside the box. I will try and secure it as best as I can so it doesn't bang on the walls (produce rattle 
) every time air passes through the vent.
Last edited by Intruder; July-21st-2003 at 12:38 PM.
July-21st-2003, 02:18 PM
#221
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 456
Looks like I won't be getting the 500M after all. I can't wait more than two weeks for this ****....
martin,
we are hoping early august. We know at this piont the amps are ready to go
and are being built but the manufacturing of equipment like this, mainly the
amps unfortunatly isn't as simple as just building a few amps.
amps are built normally in 500 + quantities and done all at once or not at
all in Korea. 500 amplifiers take close to a month to build. Then are
shipped to the united states and take 6 to 8 weeks on a boat to get here, go
through customs, etc etc as well as any extranious time that happens while
they are on the way here.
Then once they arrive in the US they go through a 2-3 week (min) proccess
that included all kinds of electrical and quality control testing.
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> Hi,
>
> Since I have not heard either amp (tsunami db1100 nor avionixx 500m) I
think
> I'll stay with the Avionixx 500M. It has better specs on paper...
>
> How soon (date) do you think it will be available? Can you give me some up
> to date news on it? Like, why does it take so long to manufacture a couple
> of amps. They have to be tested or what? Are they built here in the US or
> overseas?
>
> Martin
we are hoping early august. We know at this piont the amps are ready to go
and are being built but the manufacturing of equipment like this, mainly the
amps unfortunatly isn't as simple as just building a few amps.
amps are built normally in 500 + quantities and done all at once or not at
all in Korea. 500 amplifiers take close to a month to build. Then are
shipped to the united states and take 6 to 8 weeks on a boat to get here, go
through customs, etc etc as well as any extranious time that happens while
they are on the way here.
Then once they arrive in the US they go through a 2-3 week (min) proccess
that included all kinds of electrical and quality control testing.
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> Hi,
>
> Since I have not heard either amp (tsunami db1100 nor avionixx 500m) I
think
> I'll stay with the Avionixx 500M. It has better specs on paper...
>
> How soon (date) do you think it will be available? Can you give me some up
> to date news on it? Like, why does it take so long to manufacture a couple
> of amps. They have to be tested or what? Are they built here in the US or
> overseas?
>
> Martin
July-21st-2003, 02:43 PM
#222
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 456
we will go ahead and send you out a 1100d, and expadite shipping to you at
no charge to you at all. We will overnight the amplifier today so all you'll
need to do is give us the go ahead and we can have you waking up to a brand
new amplifier tomorrow!
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Cc: <martin@pixelmaths.com>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> I am not flaming you. I am an honest person - just like you are. I have
much
> respect for your company. It is very unfortunate that my amp did not get
> shipped like I expected it, but bad stuff happens all the time. It could
> have been anyone... I feel bad because I made a choise and now I have to
> "settle for something less". This is how I feel about it....
>
> But I'm not flaming you in any way. The people who are following this are
> the people who sent me to eD. All they say is that you should compensate
me
> for all this trouble.... No one is questioning the quality of your
products
> or the quality of customer service.
>
> I would really LOVE to have the 500M, but as I said before, I do not wish
to
> wait more than 2 weeks for it. If you cannot deliver it by then, I'd opt
for
> the DB1100...
>
> Yes, if you have that in stock, PLEASE send it ASAP because I am dying!
> You could include 20sq. feet of eDead v.2.0 to make up for the price
> difference between the amps and put an end to this whole "adventure".
>
> Best regards,
> Martin
no charge to you at all. We will overnight the amplifier today so all you'll
need to do is give us the go ahead and we can have you waking up to a brand
new amplifier tomorrow!
eD Sales Dept.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pentchev" <martin2110@hotmail.com>
To: <sales@edesignaudio.com>
Cc: <martin@pixelmaths.com>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Your Elemental Designs Order
> I am not flaming you. I am an honest person - just like you are. I have
much
> respect for your company. It is very unfortunate that my amp did not get
> shipped like I expected it, but bad stuff happens all the time. It could
> have been anyone... I feel bad because I made a choise and now I have to
> "settle for something less". This is how I feel about it....
>
> But I'm not flaming you in any way. The people who are following this are
> the people who sent me to eD. All they say is that you should compensate
me
> for all this trouble.... No one is questioning the quality of your
products
> or the quality of customer service.
>
> I would really LOVE to have the 500M, but as I said before, I do not wish
to
> wait more than 2 weeks for it. If you cannot deliver it by then, I'd opt
for
> the DB1100...
>
> Yes, if you have that in stock, PLEASE send it ASAP because I am dying!
> You could include 20sq. feet of eDead v.2.0 to make up for the price
> difference between the amps and put an end to this whole "adventure".
>
> Best regards,
> Martin
July-21st-2003, 03:31 PM
#223
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kanata, Ontario
Posts: 146
I've been following this on-going saga from the beginning and I hope Intruder you will be happy with the end result.
Now, If I understand this correctly, you will be feeding your 12K.44 650 WRMS at a 2 Ohm load, correct? If you had pruchased a SVC, you would have been giving it 350 WRMS at a 4 Ohm load. This is all based on the DB-1100D.
Decent-looking amp...
Anyway, nice job on the lighting...looking forward to seeing the end product.
~4 rubBeR
Now, If I understand this correctly, you will be feeding your 12K.44 650 WRMS at a 2 Ohm load, correct? If you had pruchased a SVC, you would have been giving it 350 WRMS at a 4 Ohm load. This is all based on the DB-1100D.
Decent-looking amp...
Anyway, nice job on the lighting...looking forward to seeing the end product.
~4 rubBeR
July-21st-2003, 06:36 PM
#224
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 456
Originally posted by 4 rubBeR
I've been following this on-going saga from the beginning and I hope Intruder you will be happy with the end result.
Now, If I understand this correctly, you will be feeding your 12K.44 650 WRMS at a 2 Ohm load, correct? If you had pruchased a SVC, you would have been giving it 350 WRMS at a 4 Ohm load. This is all based on the DB-1100D.
I've been following this on-going saga from the beginning and I hope Intruder you will be happy with the end result.
Now, If I understand this correctly, you will be feeding your 12K.44 650 WRMS at a 2 Ohm load, correct? If you had pruchased a SVC, you would have been giving it 350 WRMS at a 4 Ohm load. This is all based on the DB-1100D.
Yes, this is correct - 650Wrms @ 2ohms. If I had the Avionixx 500M I would be pumping slightly less in the sub (500Wrms).
Decent-looking amp...
I've seen better looking amps.
Anyway, nice job on the lighting...looking forward to seeing the end product.
I'll keep posting pics...I think I'll go out now - look for a battery terminal, etc. I have my cables and I need to put them in the car. I also need to get a remote wire. I'll receive the amp tomorrow and my box is pretty much done (done enough for testing purposes).