Gavin

I've been checking out rear anti-sway bars for my 2002 ES and was wondering if I can eliminate the linked factor. Seems to me that the linkage would still allow for significant sway. I'm looking to force the rear end into synchronous flex and better force distribution despite Mazda's claim of "steering " the back end. Any ideas or am I way off?

JDMstuff

You have to have links on the rear swaybar. Otherwise the rear suspension would be locked in place, and you would have one huge torsion bar.

Gavin

Understood. So just increasing the diameter and strength of the stock (ie upgrading) would be sufficient? How about the stock linkage and bushings? Would they be able to compensate or are we talking about replacing the whole lot? Anyone got any sites I could check for research? Thanks.

JDMstuff

Usually, when upgrading the swaybars, you would look for one that has a thicker diameter than stock, about 1-3mm thicker. There shouldn't be a problem with it shifting from side-to-side, as the bushings hold them in place.

Gavin

I'm still checking all this out. All I know is if I swerve at higher speeds, the *** end feels like it wants to jump right into the next lane. I can hold my own under the hood but I'm pretty weak when it comes to suspension and chassis. I suppose I'm a bit nervous about getting the wrong thing or not being satisfied with the final product. I think more research and q's are in order. Thanks.

JDMstuff

A thicker sway bar in the rear will DECREASE rearend traction around corners. It will allow the rear end to come around if you get one that is too thick. If you go with something like the MP3 sway bars, both the front and the rear are larger, so the front will slip out a little as well, balancing out the car while reducing body roll. It all really depends on your driving style, and you may need to adapt to the way the car drives if you do decide to upgrade the sway bars.

Gavin

I think I'll just start with the front strut tower bar. My driving style isn't what brings on the "loosness", it's when that f*#king moron cuts me off or I need to avoid hitting something in the road so I sweve or jack up the brakes and the body feels like it's riding on jello. My ES takes corners fine and I'm not that hard on her. Maybe I'm asking too much out of a sedan class (kinda small for that class) car. Thanks for the info though. C ya.

carguycw

Try getting stiffer rear struts. The "loose" feeling in zig-zag transitions is caused by soft struts; swaybars and springs have a larger influence on steady-state handling (i.e. going around a constant-radius corner at a constant speed). The Pro is a fairly tall, narrow car by sporty car standards and needs stiff struts to keep the weight from shifting too quickly.

My Pro needs struts bad, but I'm broke.

Gavin

I could probably use an upgrade but I want to use my $ on other mods. I've got time.

Jas00x

I've been autocrossing for almost 6 years now, so I've experienced almost every driver error you can make, and I've also done a fair share of car setup.

They are right about the rear swaybar making the car more loose. I think what you are talking about is when you are under braking, right? If you try to brake and turn at high speeds, (or try to brake in the middle of a turn) the car WILL spinout on you. That is just a function of a driving- it doesn't matter what your suspension setup is.
Having a softer rear swaybar trys to keep the back end more stable, which is why car manufacturers put a softer swaybar on a street car. Racers like the the oversteer so they (we) usually try to stiffen the back shocks, springs or go to a bigger swaybar to get the car to handle *better*.
If you feel you want your car to be "safer", go with a bigger front swaybar. However- this could cause more oversteer- or push.
A simple thing you can do is have the alignment set with a little toe-in in the back.

You can try these things, but I think it may be a function of driving.
Some common mistakes people make about suspension setup are really driving mistakes. The 2 big ones are:

1. when you try to turn while you are braking, and the car won't turn- it "pushes" or just goes straight.
fix: take your foot off the brake, and then turn.

2. when you are in the middle of a turn and realize you are going too fast (or someone cuts you off, or a deer runs across the road), you put your foot on the brake and the the car spins out.
fix: straighten the wheel wheel a little, lift off gas and brake.

Just remember- brake in a straight line.

To really determine or measure the "handling", or "suspension setup" of a car, you evaluate how the car drives through a turn (or series of turns) usually under constant accelleration (where you say your car handles fine).

Gavin

Thanks much for the input Jas00x. You bring up points I should have known. I guess I'm expecting too much from my ride. These "loose" conditions do occur only when I brake in a turn. I think she could also use an alignment. I've gotta get back to my motorcycle training...."NEVER brake in a turn!!" I'll keep my stock rear bar (I didn't see a front sway bar), get a front strut tower bar and probably drop her ~1"-1.5". Thanks again and good luck in the races.

Jas00x

Gavin-

Good luck with the car. You may want to consider just installing some good shocks (like the adjustable MAZDASPEEDS) to improve your handling.
So many people are quick to dump the stock springs, but don't do the shocks and end up ruining their shocks faster. You would be surprised at the improved performance of just changing your shocks.
Right now, I just have some Bilstein shocks that AWR built for me (and revalved). And I'm pretty happy with the performance and handling (though I wish they were adjustable). Although, if you are looking for a cosmetic improvement, I guess you could go with the springs.

I had thought the new ES's came with a strut tower bar, but I guess thats only the MP3 and Protege5- you can get that bar from MAZDASPEED (formerly Mazdamotorsports). AWR also has an adjustable Carbon fiber strut bar available these days.

Heres another tip- be sure to check your alignment after changing parts. Having the alignment (toe) zeroed out is a good place to start to *test* how well a new part works.