douggie

Count me in Chris!!!

Oh, and yeah of course, welcome to the board... hehe

mnkyboy

Welcome, I love your comments on the si vs. p5. Lots of info. Have fun on the board, keep us posted about your products.

ProtegeMaster

Hey, all!

Regarding the 5th gear issue, my primary complaint, as previously indicated, was first one of fuel economy, and secondly engine wear. I can see people's point about the engine, being a smaller size, runs best as currently geared. As long as the higher RPM's haven't any effect on engine longevity, I guess everything's cool in that regard-- I've never been an expert by any means on that subject and am keen on learning more as I go.

Fuel economy continues to be an issue that I wonder about the cruising RPM's of our FS-DE engine and tranny, though. I can't believe running at 3500 vs. 2000-2500 RPM's at standard lazy freeway speeds is efficient in terms of fuel economy. Granted, I was admittedly spoiled by my Nissan Sentra, which would get close to, sometimes a bit above, 40 mpg on the highway, and had a crusing range approaching 400 miles! I understand that this is a bigger engine than my Sentra has (2 vs. 1.6 litres), and that the performance oriented design of my ES Pro isn't going to be as efficient, but nonetheless I still believe the 5th gear ratio doesn't provide optimum efficiency. Indeed, we should have a 6th gear! Aside from saving money when all you want to do is lazily cruise down the highway, and without wishing to sound like a conservationist extremist, there's also issues of increased emissions/pollution when you're not running at optimum efficiency.

Regarding engine load at lower (2000-2500) RPM's, maybe that is an issue, but my Nissan (and nearly all other cars) always ran in that range at freeway speeds, and has lasted over 10 years without problems.

Anyway, it's cool to get input from everyone on the board regarding this issue, and I totally respect what you're all saying. On some things you have to compromise, and I'd venture to say that despite a few shortcomings, our Proteges still kick major ***.

Also, regarding the quality of communication amongst Honda enthusiasts, indeed maybe they're less civilized/mature, but I'd have to admit some of what they're saying is true: I agree that Honda's also are awesome cars. They've established a long histroy of exemplary reliability; qualities that I respect a lot. The only thing I'm not very keen on regarding Hondas these days is their styling (which I think sucks), and the fact that everyone and their butt uncle drives a Honda! There's nothing unique about bumping around in a Civic, that's for sure!

Later, folks!

mnkyboy

Exactly! Hondas are good cars, but it feels like theres like 10 hondas to 1 other car on the road. This is one of the reasons I purchased a Mazda.

zeus

It seems Mazda’s Pro customer base is being built largely on previous Honda owners, and admit I probably wouldn’t have a P5 now if not for owning and tuning a civic. My civic was a blast and I drove it to have fun, never caring about longevity. I knew if I blew the motor, there were dozens in the junk yard just waiting. I reved the **** out of it. Shifted just short of the limiter most of the time, and pretty much stayed in forth gear unless I was going better than 70. I even took money with bets on how fast it would go in second gear. In short, I ragged that car something fierce. But got 267,000 miles out of it without a motor failure. I sold it, because it needed tires and I didn’t think it was worth it with those kinda miles. The guy I sold it to now has 310,000+ on it, and it looks like valve guides are finally shot. He still gets 38 mpg though.

The point I wanted to make is that the higher (slightly) revs you mention, aren’t going to make a bit of difference. The designers intended it to run that way. The engine is running in its region of peak efficiency cruising at 3500-4000 rpm, and sitting right on the torque curve. Comparing the Pro motor to a Sentra engine really isn’t fair either. They are engines designed for completely different driving characteristics. Also, the 2.0L got the rating of an “Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle” designed this way. I know it may take getting used to the sound of higher (slightly) revs, especially if you were used to a V8, but that’s expected. It took me years myself, having been a dedicated small block fan. Now I’m rev happy, and in 98 when Yamaha said they were making a sport bike that redlined at 15,500 rpm, I put my money down. The more revs the better.

The only issue I have that I can’t except is with the monkey pissers, sorry mnkyboy no offence. There is no way you’d ever be able to clean the windshield with those things. What the hell were they thinking. A total waste of washer fluid. It looks like standard GM units will snap right in, thank goodness.

ProtegeMaster

Yes indeed, I understood in comparing the Protege's engine to that of the Sentra's that they were put in different kinds of cars. Early 90's Sentras are still commonly autocrossed though, and I'd venture to say from my outsider experience it appears they do very well. In fact, I'd say the GA16DE engine in my Sentra is more refined, and certainly more quiet, than the Pro's. It does all that and still puts out 110HP (which I think is cool), the torque though I'm not sure of. You've got that standard 1.6 litre engine, and then there was the SR20DE in the early Sentra SE-R's-- Now that was, and continues to be, a great engine! We also may wish to keep in mind that the newer 2.0 litre engines in Gen. 3 Pro's come straight out of the 626; a car that wasn't really designed for performance, but rather steady family sedan driving. Based on that, maybe comparing the 1.6 Sentra engine to that of the Pro's isn't that far off, after all?

Regarding the noise issue, I guess that's something else that bugs me a bit about the FS-DE's: Anyone else notice when you start up your engine that it almost sounds like a diesel until it's warmed up? Geeze is it loud! I mean, whoa! Once again, Sentra is much, much quieter; even their 2 litre engine-- Further surprising given that that car is 10 years older than my new ES!

Anyway, I don't mean to complain-- Pro's are awesome, to be sure. It just looks to me like, say, Honda and Nissan, are able to deliver more power while at the same time bringing better fuel economy (and quieter operation), perhaps suggesting that their engine designs are a bit better than Mazda's.

My (amateur) perceived observations listed:

Nissan/Honda-- Quieter engines with more power and better fuel economy.
Mazda-- (Currently) Unrivaled vehicle style & equal vehicle reliability to that of Nissan/Honda/Toyota. Better warranty, and thus good evidense that our Mazdas will hold together very well.

I venture my opinion...

Take it easy, all!

Charles J P

My only complaint is RPM related too. I dont like 1st and 5th gear. My brother has a 99 civic and he can cruise along at about 20mph in 1st (parking lots, speed bumps, the short stretch of gravel to get to our parents house) and he is up in the RPM range, but his engine doesnt buzz so bad. Also, if he goes up to 20 mph in first and then lets off the gas, his car starts to slow down gracefully. If I run up to 20 in my MP5 and then let off the gas, my car jerks down and then bucks violently. (why does it do this) it does it to some degree in second too. Then of course, I also am not thrilled about the high RPMs at cruising speed, but it doesnt really bother me noise or vibration wise.

kcbhiw

My largest complaint is the cup holders -- big cups don't fit and small ones fit loosly. As mentioned by others, the 20 mph increments do take some getting used to. Another item that would greatly benifit this car is a LSD (limited slip diff). It's a bit too easy to spin the driver's side wheel, especially under moderate cornering. Other that that, I love the car and am quite happy with my purchase.

Tornado

I agree with some but not all the posts I've seen so far. I hadn't even tought about the armrest as my arm doesn't naturally sit there while driving. On the other hand the lock is a big pain in the ***. Mainly when I drive with the window down and then can't get out when I stop cause I've lock myself in

I have some new gripes wondering if anyone else has seen or experienced.

1. Condensation on the inside of the windsheild. Over the past 2 months I've noticed condensation on the inside of the car when using the heater/fan. Any ideas?

2. When you roll down the windows it doesn't wipe them clean
All my other cars had seals that would wipe dew or water off the window when you rolled it down. With the P5 I have to wipe it down manually or turn the defrost on full blast to get the windows to dry. Not serious but annoying.

3. Rattles as mentioned above. However they come from weird spots and I can't seem to pinpoint them so I just turn up the sound

Anyway that's my 2 cents and would welcome feedback

skyhawk174

Hmmm, interesting, no problems like that yet out here in Alberta but that may depend on the weather, of course.

Yup hate that too.

As for that door lock poking you in the arm, I don't get that problem. Maybe I am shorter and my seat is just a bit further up. Maybe the manequin Mazda used to design the seat is a short fella?

xfimpg

I agree with this point the most. I had a 97 Protege LX and it would rev at 3000rpm at 120kph (80mph). My 2002 LX revs at 3000 when I'm only going 100kph! Ridiculous. And I find it much noisier too.

PhotoPro5

I've gotta agree with this statement. Unless you were given your car (which would give absolutely no grounds to complain) you have no excuse for bitching about the car being slow. You want a faster car? Drop another 7k for a WRX. You want lower rpm on the highway? Buy a car with taller gearing.

To people who happen to like Proteges

Carlos

I think most people that you think are "complaining" really like their cars, like me. To say that because you don't like a few things about a car you shouldn't buy it is a bit like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I didn't give up my right to "complain" when I bought the car. Maybe people should start viewing this "complaining" as indirect feedback/constructive critism to Mazda. I'm sure Mazda surfs these boards every once in while and can get a really good feel as to how they need to improve their products.

It's too bad if people take these sorts of threads as some sort of insults to their cars, or take it personally some how. I'm sure the folks who created this forum don't want baseless drivel spouted about their beloved cars, but most of the stuff I read can be considered legitamate observations/concerns by owners.

Another point, human nature is to draw attention to things that need to change (complain), we usually don't spend too much time talking about things that are perfectly fine the way they are. So we all have to realize that this human tendancy is reflected in this internet forum, and in every other internet forum about almost any product.

In fact, its probably a good idea not even to look at these types of active forums if your doing research on a car, because you'll come away with the impression that just about every car sucks


Ok, I'm off my soapbox now...

Leigh13

Well said, Carlos!

I agree with the complaints for a lot of the little issues, like the gearing and the placement of the door locks. And while those minor problems do annoy me, they are just about the only problems I have with my Pro5. To me, that says a lot about just how good these cars are!

For the 99% of the things that I like better than the competition, I'm willing to deal with the <1% that bother me. I wonder what sort of gripes we'll come up with when Mazda addresses all these issues? I mean, for the mid-year upgrade to the 2002 P5, they fixed the cupholders, added side markers, and upgraded the stereo with tweeters. It's only a matter of time before they take care of the rest (with the exception of the gearing, due to the cost involved.)

By the way, speaking of problems with this car...when are they going to take care of the damn CD-eating hole in the center console?

xfimpg

Amen.