Tires and Brakes questions.
November-19th-2003, 08:11 AM
#1
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
Tires and Brakes questions.
Been reading this great forum for some time. I got my first question.
My P5 is at around 64000 Km right now. When I brought it in for service the dealer said that I needed new rear pads.. funny..... the rears worn out faster than the fronts
, as well I need to change all the tires.
Should I get the OEM pads and have the dealer install them?
Or shoud I get an aftermaket ones and have them install somewhere else? I do not know anything about brakes...:-)
The dealer qouted me Cad $101 + labor for the job with OEM pads.
Are there any other alternatives to the Dunloop tires for P5?
The dealer qouted me $165 each.
Cheers.
My P5 is at around 64000 Km right now. When I brought it in for service the dealer said that I needed new rear pads.. funny..... the rears worn out faster than the fronts
, as well I need to change all the tires.Should I get the OEM pads and have the dealer install them?
Or shoud I get an aftermaket ones and have them install somewhere else? I do not know anything about brakes...:-)
The dealer qouted me Cad $101 + labor for the job with OEM pads.
Are there any other alternatives to the Dunloop tires for P5?
The dealer qouted me $165 each.
Cheers.
Last edited by Tondano_p5; November-19th-2003 at 08:13 AM.
November-19th-2003, 09:44 AM
#2
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PIttsfield, ME
Posts: 20
theres a million alternatives to the dunlops. i personally like kumhos. go to tirerack.com and check out the tires they have that are the same size as yours, which should be 195/50/16. As for brake pads, theyre a big ol' pain in the *** if you ask me. I did them once, and I'll never do them on my P5 ever ever ever ever again. just my humble opinion.....
November-19th-2003, 01:01 PM
#3
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
Appreciate your opinion ccha9726.
OK... i read some good reviews on 712 ECSTA SUPRA found here:
http://www.tiretrends.com/sizeSelectResult.php3
Is $103 from tire trend the best price online?
They charge $10 each for shipping to Toronto from BC.
Is there any place in Toronto area selling this 712 ECSTA SUPRA?
For brake pads, do you guys think $101 plus $75 is justifiable?
Please help I am totally newbie in this area (wheel).
Cheers.
OK... i read some good reviews on 712 ECSTA SUPRA found here:
http://www.tiretrends.com/sizeSelectResult.php3
Is $103 from tire trend the best price online?
They charge $10 each for shipping to Toronto from BC.
Is there any place in Toronto area selling this 712 ECSTA SUPRA?
For brake pads, do you guys think $101 plus $75 is justifiable?
Please help I am totally newbie in this area (wheel).
Cheers.
Last edited by Tondano_p5; November-19th-2003 at 01:05 PM.
November-19th-2003, 01:05 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,111
I've done brake pads on a few different vehicles (never a Protege though) and it's a relatively quick and easy job. You could save a lot by purchasing aftermarket pads at an auto chain store and doing them yourself. I'm sure somebody you know would be willing to give you a hand/show you how to properly do pads.
November-19th-2003, 04:04 PM
#5
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lafaytte, Louisiana
Posts: 3
I have yet to change the pads on my P5, but I have on the 3 BMW's I own or have owned. I takes less than an hour an axle and that includes gathering the tools and clean up. Very easy job.
I have always used AXXIS deluxe pads on my BMW. They are supperior to BMW factory pads in every way possible especially when compared to dust which is reduced about 80%.
I have always bought pads from www.zeckhausen.com. Imagine my surprise to see they carry the AXXIS pads for the P5 as well (front only) http://www.zeckhausen.com/Mazda/Protege.htm . They carry the OEM pads for the rear for $50US.
As far as tires go, I would use 205/45-16 instead of the factory 195/50-16. You'll get slightly better grip and there is a greater selection at a cheaper price to boot.
I have always used AXXIS deluxe pads on my BMW. They are supperior to BMW factory pads in every way possible especially when compared to dust which is reduced about 80%.
I have always bought pads from www.zeckhausen.com. Imagine my surprise to see they carry the AXXIS pads for the P5 as well (front only) http://www.zeckhausen.com/Mazda/Protege.htm . They carry the OEM pads for the rear for $50US.
As far as tires go, I would use 205/45-16 instead of the factory 195/50-16. You'll get slightly better grip and there is a greater selection at a cheaper price to boot.
November-19th-2003, 05:18 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,111
You mentioned that the AXXIS pads were superior to the BMW factory ones, and that they also carry the AXXIS pads for the Protege5. Did you notice any extra wear on the rotors of the BMW? My main concern would be that the Protege's rotors would not be as high quality as the BMW ones and therefore get eaten up a bit more. Any thoughts?
November-19th-2003, 06:04 PM
#7
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lafaytte, Louisiana
Posts: 3
Virtually every BMW enthusiast knows to replace the factory pads with the AXXIS Deluxe Pads. They are VERY easy on rotors, cause very little dust, and stop the car slightly better than stock.
BTW BMW rotors are relative thin and the dealer or brake shops will always STRONGLY recommend replacing them along with the pads. BMW rotors should NEVER be turned. They say they are designed to wear at the same rate as the Pads. Not entirely true; the Rotors will actually last about another 15K miles or so. However, since most people only check their brakes when their pad sensors go, the rotors are well beyond their usable life at that point. Since BMW rotors are only $68/pair (E36) I generally go ahead and replace them along with the pads. Total parts cost is around $125 an axle for pads/rotors/sensor(if needed) and I do the labor myself.
I don't know much about the P5's brake system yet so I don't know how quickly the rotors wear. I just checked tirerack and the Brembo Rotors (front or rear) are $108/pair. Damn, that's $40 more than for my 3 series. In fact they are more expensive even than the rotors for my 5 series. Who would've guessed?
Still, you are only looking at about $150-160 in parts cost for pads/rotors per axle. Not bad when you consider you just got 64,000 KM out of the original ones.
One more note, I would be concerned that the rear pads wore out before the front ones. Generally rear pads last 1.5-2 times longer than the fronts. I would call the dealership and ask to speak with the service manager about this.
All prices are in USD.
BTW BMW rotors are relative thin and the dealer or brake shops will always STRONGLY recommend replacing them along with the pads. BMW rotors should NEVER be turned. They say they are designed to wear at the same rate as the Pads. Not entirely true; the Rotors will actually last about another 15K miles or so. However, since most people only check their brakes when their pad sensors go, the rotors are well beyond their usable life at that point. Since BMW rotors are only $68/pair (E36) I generally go ahead and replace them along with the pads. Total parts cost is around $125 an axle for pads/rotors/sensor(if needed) and I do the labor myself.
I don't know much about the P5's brake system yet so I don't know how quickly the rotors wear. I just checked tirerack and the Brembo Rotors (front or rear) are $108/pair. Damn, that's $40 more than for my 3 series. In fact they are more expensive even than the rotors for my 5 series. Who would've guessed?
Still, you are only looking at about $150-160 in parts cost for pads/rotors per axle. Not bad when you consider you just got 64,000 KM out of the original ones.
One more note, I would be concerned that the rear pads wore out before the front ones. Generally rear pads last 1.5-2 times longer than the fronts. I would call the dealership and ask to speak with the service manager about this.
All prices are in USD.
November-19th-2003, 07:48 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 381
The stock rotors are pretty thick. So they last quite awhile. Turning is often not needed, usually a good cleaning will take away that "warped rotor" feeling. I'll probably go aftermarket during my next pad change, simply becuase I like to replace items with "performance" parts. For those that go the performance route, keep in mind that they're oftentimes louder. TireRack sends out a mailer, IIRC quarerly. In one of the recent mailers, there was a good article on brakes.
I justed checked out TireRack's site and found this - Brakes 101. There are several other good articles linked from that page.
Anyway, that's not a horrible price quote. However, I prefer saving my cash and doing it myself. I changed the pads on all four corners of my P5 for the first time this summer. I also changed the front pads on my truck and upgraded the pads and rotors on my GTP. The P5 pads where far easier to change than the others. Taking the tires on and off is a lot more work than the pad change.
What are you looking for in a tire? What are you looking for in pads? Performance - Longevity - Price - Noise. In order to better answer your question, you need to ask yourself a few and let us know what your priorities are before anyone can give fair recommendations.
Sorry to go off on another tangent, but I thought I'd also throw in that it's a good idea to flush the brake fluid. Most places will do a simple bleed, which is often good enough. However, I prefer a full flush. I flushed mine when I did my pads and it made a world of difference. I often see recommendations of every two years, however, I rarely know of people that follow that guideline.
I justed checked out TireRack's site and found this - Brakes 101. There are several other good articles linked from that page.
Anyway, that's not a horrible price quote. However, I prefer saving my cash and doing it myself. I changed the pads on all four corners of my P5 for the first time this summer. I also changed the front pads on my truck and upgraded the pads and rotors on my GTP. The P5 pads where far easier to change than the others. Taking the tires on and off is a lot more work than the pad change.
What are you looking for in a tire? What are you looking for in pads? Performance - Longevity - Price - Noise. In order to better answer your question, you need to ask yourself a few and let us know what your priorities are before anyone can give fair recommendations.
Sorry to go off on another tangent, but I thought I'd also throw in that it's a good idea to flush the brake fluid. Most places will do a simple bleed, which is often good enough. However, I prefer a full flush. I flushed mine when I did my pads and it made a world of difference. I often see recommendations of every two years, however, I rarely know of people that follow that guideline.
Last edited by GNO; November-19th-2003 at 08:07 PM.
November-20th-2003, 12:03 AM
#9
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 44
Brakes:
If you are looking for performance replacements go to www.kvrperformance.com and look up their pads and rotors. I have had great service and the parts are top notch. To do both front and rear rotors and pads will run about $700CAD (gas slotted rotors, carbon pads). There is a front upgrade package available as well: 12" - $995CAD / 13" - $2295CAD.
Or, if you want good replacement parts, get the Euro-rotors, available at Canadian Tire, I haven't checked, but they probably run about $50CAD per front, and about $100 for the rears... and a top quality pad from there is alright. Again, I have had good luck with these products.
Tires:
I think that the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS, in a 195/50ZR-16 would be good... I have heard good things about the Kuhmo's as well.
Dunlop also makes the FM901 Sport in this size, considerably cheaper, handles better but a little noisier...
205/50-16 will fit nicely on the 5... personally I hope to have a set of MP3 or Mazdaspeed rims on the car next year (fingers crossed)...
If you are looking for performance replacements go to www.kvrperformance.com and look up their pads and rotors. I have had great service and the parts are top notch. To do both front and rear rotors and pads will run about $700CAD (gas slotted rotors, carbon pads). There is a front upgrade package available as well: 12" - $995CAD / 13" - $2295CAD.
Or, if you want good replacement parts, get the Euro-rotors, available at Canadian Tire, I haven't checked, but they probably run about $50CAD per front, and about $100 for the rears... and a top quality pad from there is alright. Again, I have had good luck with these products.
Tires:
I think that the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS, in a 195/50ZR-16 would be good... I have heard good things about the Kuhmo's as well.
Dunlop also makes the FM901 Sport in this size, considerably cheaper, handles better but a little noisier...
205/50-16 will fit nicely on the 5... personally I hope to have a set of MP3 or Mazdaspeed rims on the car next year (fingers crossed)...
November-20th-2003, 10:14 PM
#10
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11
I just did the rear brakes on my MP5, I used Canadian tire pads which fit really well. The dealer quoted me a high price, and also wanted to turn the rotors, which I know alot of people have different opinions about doing this. The problem was that my wife was complaining about a grinding noise, I was out of the country, so she parked the car till I got back. She went to the dealer and they wanted alot of money to do all the brakes, when I got home, I looked at the brakes and found that one pad had seized in the caliper, and went to metal on metal. Luckily my wife stopped driving it like this or she would have ruined the rotor. I found it strange that the dealer wouldn't compesate for this in their quote, its unusual for a new car to have brake problems like this. Anyway, 40 bucks at canadian tire and the problem was solved.
As far as the job goes, replacement was a little more difficult than I thought. Apparently you need a special tool to retract the caliper piston, which Canadian tire will lend you for free. It compresses the piston and turns it at the same time, because these calipers are ratcheting type, due to the parking brake feature. Once the calipers were opened up to receive the new pads, it was easy.
gimly
As far as the job goes, replacement was a little more difficult than I thought. Apparently you need a special tool to retract the caliper piston, which Canadian tire will lend you for free. It compresses the piston and turns it at the same time, because these calipers are ratcheting type, due to the parking brake feature. Once the calipers were opened up to receive the new pads, it was easy.
gimly
Last edited by gimly; November-20th-2003 at 10:40 PM.
November-21st-2003, 09:25 AM
#12
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
Thanks for your comments and links guys... Appreciate it.
I think I will go for performance pads next time when the fronts are out. For now i will be using the ones from Canadiantire.
Gimly, what kind of tool are you talking about? ...I will be picking pads from Canadian tire later today and I want to do the install myself tomorrow.
Please help, I did install alarm and sound system myself but
this is going to be my first pads install... totally newbie on mechanic stuff.
Any comments on TOYO PROXES TPT or T1-S tires?
Are they any better than Dunloop 5000 (stock ones).
Cheers.
I think I will go for performance pads next time when the fronts are out. For now i will be using the ones from Canadiantire.
Gimly, what kind of tool are you talking about? ...I will be picking pads from Canadian tire later today and I want to do the install myself tomorrow.
Please help, I did install alarm and sound system myself but
this is going to be my first pads install... totally newbie on mechanic stuff.
Any comments on TOYO PROXES TPT or T1-S tires?
Are they any better than Dunloop 5000 (stock ones).
Cheers.
November-21st-2003, 10:33 AM
#13
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11
Tonando,
The tool is just called a brake caliper tool, just talk to the parts guy and he'll help you out. I spoke to one of the mechanics about my problem retracting the piston, and he told me about the tool. It has several adaptors with it, depending on the model of car. The instructions with the tool are ok, but it says to align the tool with the detents in the piston. One problem: on the Mazda P5, there are no detents to lock the tool. I used it anyway, and friction worked by pressing against the piston while turning, and the piston retracted. Also, be sure to disconnect the parking brake cables as this will hamper retraction of the piston by man-handling the caliper with them still attatched. The first side always takes the longest, so be patient.
Hope this helps,
gimly
The tool is just called a brake caliper tool, just talk to the parts guy and he'll help you out. I spoke to one of the mechanics about my problem retracting the piston, and he told me about the tool. It has several adaptors with it, depending on the model of car. The instructions with the tool are ok, but it says to align the tool with the detents in the piston. One problem: on the Mazda P5, there are no detents to lock the tool. I used it anyway, and friction worked by pressing against the piston while turning, and the piston retracted. Also, be sure to disconnect the parking brake cables as this will hamper retraction of the piston by man-handling the caliper with them still attatched. The first side always takes the longest, so be patient.
Hope this helps,
gimly
November-22nd-2003, 06:40 PM
#14
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PIttsfield, ME
Posts: 20
kumhos
i just ordered a set of 4 kumho ecsta supra 712's from tirerack.com for $278 including shipping. $100/ea is waaaaaayyy too much for Kumhos. If you're gonna spend that much you should get something a little better. as bang for the buck goes, the kumhos are the best, IMHO.
