temporary engine rattle fix
May-5th-2002, 12:45 PM
#32
a.k.a. spydermonkey
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,413
Originally posted by TheMAN
I suggest you re-read all these posts again.
I suggest you re-read all these posts again.
May-5th-2002, 12:59 PM
#33
a.k.a. spydermonkey
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,413
Originally posted by TheMAN
How many times has "VTCS" been said? So put the picture together.
How many times has "VTCS" been said? So put the picture together.
http://www.geocities.com/bracecraig/maxima/vtc/vtc.html
Here is a quote from the page:
"The 1992-1994 Maxima SE comes standard with the 3.0L V6 VE30DE engine. The problem lies with springs in the Variable Timing Cam (VTC) Sprockets. What happens is the advanced timing does NOT DISengage when the VTC are bad. So it advances timing at low RPM's. It also causes the engine to make a clattering sound that goes away after the engine warms up. Repair involves rebuilding the VTC assembly or replacing the assembly. Supposedly the new VTC assemblies are improved and will not fail, but several people have experienced VTC failure again 20-30k miles after having the assemblies rebuilt. This repair can cost from $1000 to $1400."
Does anyone have a running count of how many people have this problem?
Last edited by mnkyboy; May-5th-2002 at 01:04 PM.
May-5th-2002, 01:30 PM
#34
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: ottawa, ontario canada
Posts: 1,030
Originally posted by Carlos
Nightowl,
A while back Rodslinger helped me out with this.
On the 6th picture down, right above/behind the red strut tower brace you see the 2 solenoids mounted on top of the intake manifold. One has a green connector and one has a white connector. The green one is the only one I worked with.
It seems the people who have the check engine light may have disconnected the actual electrical connector. What I did is left the electrical connector "as is" and disconnected the actual vacuum hose on that solenoid. If you follow the vacuum hose on the green one it will get to a vacuum actuator near the rear of the head. This seems to actuate the plate inside the manifold (which apparently is at least partly to blame for our noise). If you remove the hose from the source of the vaccuum at the solenoid, that vacuum actuator will no longer move the plate inside, and the noise goes away. If you play around with plugging and unplugging the vacuum hose at the solenoid while the engine is on (and cold), you'll see this actuator snap open and closed (like if it were part of the throttle body). Once the car is warm the solenoid seems to switch off not letting any vacuum through (hence our noise goes away when the car warms up).
I have not disconnected the electrical connection. Maybe this, along with plugging the hole where the vacuum hose was attached to, fools the computer into thinking nothing has changed. I would not leave the hole on the solenoid unplugged as it essentially allows unfiltered air strait into the intake manifold(since that is where the vacuum comes from).
About the only change I have noticed is that at idle when cold, the exhaust doesnt smell perfectly clean, like an ULEV vehicle would. From what I have gathered from this forum, the plate I was refering to above is a big part of what makes our P5's ULEV.
So far so good (after about 3000 miles). But if something bad does happen, oh well... I plug the hose back in and take it to the dealer to take care of.
Sorry for the length, hope this clears this up some.
Nightowl,
A while back Rodslinger helped me out with this.
On the 6th picture down, right above/behind the red strut tower brace you see the 2 solenoids mounted on top of the intake manifold. One has a green connector and one has a white connector. The green one is the only one I worked with.
It seems the people who have the check engine light may have disconnected the actual electrical connector. What I did is left the electrical connector "as is" and disconnected the actual vacuum hose on that solenoid. If you follow the vacuum hose on the green one it will get to a vacuum actuator near the rear of the head. This seems to actuate the plate inside the manifold (which apparently is at least partly to blame for our noise). If you remove the hose from the source of the vaccuum at the solenoid, that vacuum actuator will no longer move the plate inside, and the noise goes away. If you play around with plugging and unplugging the vacuum hose at the solenoid while the engine is on (and cold), you'll see this actuator snap open and closed (like if it were part of the throttle body). Once the car is warm the solenoid seems to switch off not letting any vacuum through (hence our noise goes away when the car warms up).
I have not disconnected the electrical connection. Maybe this, along with plugging the hole where the vacuum hose was attached to, fools the computer into thinking nothing has changed. I would not leave the hole on the solenoid unplugged as it essentially allows unfiltered air strait into the intake manifold(since that is where the vacuum comes from).
About the only change I have noticed is that at idle when cold, the exhaust doesnt smell perfectly clean, like an ULEV vehicle would. From what I have gathered from this forum, the plate I was refering to above is a big part of what makes our P5's ULEV.
So far so good (after about 3000 miles). But if something bad does happen, oh well... I plug the hose back in and take it to the dealer to take care of.
Sorry for the length, hope this clears this up some.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/malcolm.nor...e/IMG_2179.jpg
[Image removed by TheMAN due to excessive file size and resolution, image accessable via link]
May-5th-2002, 02:24 PM
#35
a.k.a. spydermonkey
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,413
Originally posted by TheMAN
No, it's a different thing. Mazda's definition of VTCS is "Variable Tumble Control System".
No, it's a different thing. Mazda's definition of VTCS is "Variable Tumble Control System".
May-7th-2002, 09:38 AM
#36
P.A.C.T / P.A.APC Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Smyrna, GA
Posts: 269
To plug the open vacuum port on the solenoid, just go to any auto parts store and pick up an assortment of vacuum caps. Most places like Autozone, Advance, Crap-boys, Napa, etc have a section with miscellaneous parts in red packs branded "Help" parts. They have everything from oil drain plugs, door hinge bushings, locks, connectors and vacuum connectors. Should be less than a buck. Yank the vacuum line on the green solenoid, plug the vacuum port and rattle is gone.
May-10th-2002, 08:40 PM
#37
Juggalo
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 763
Yep, yep this fix is the ****. Its made me sooo much more happier about my ride. The only adverse effect I have noticed is when its still cold, the throttle response seems a little laggy, but it picks right back up when you reach normal operating temp. But hey I'll trade the initial throttle lage for that irritating as hell rattle any day of the week. Besides its not like you should be racing your engine when its cold anyway.
May-10th-2002, 08:54 PM
#38
a.k.a. spydermonkey
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,413
Originally posted by TheMAN
No, it's a different thing. Mazda's definition of VTCS is "Variable Tumble Control System".
No, it's a different thing. Mazda's definition of VTCS is "Variable Tumble Control System".
)
May-10th-2002, 10:47 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 58
Originally posted by PJStyles
Does this rattle exist on all protege models? I was going to buy a 2002 mazda protege es but am now having second thoughts... any unbias opinions out there?
PJStyles
Does this rattle exist on all protege models? I was going to buy a 2002 mazda protege es but am now having second thoughts... any unbias opinions out there?
PJStyles
I think you'll find that all of us who have the rattle are still very happy with our choice in vehicles.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eric
May-10th-2002, 11:09 PM
#41
Mr. Butlertron
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 414
I have a sedan and have the rattling sound. It's barely noticeable and last for about a minute. I dont think it is loud enough for people outside the car to notice. I am on a waiting list at my dealership to be called when they get the new ECU program.
May-10th-2002, 11:22 PM
#42
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 372
I have the same rattling sound on my '99 ES. The 1.8L engines do not have the VTCS. I have found that 3rd Gen Protege's do not like to be between idle and 1,000rpm. I get the rattle on cold start (not as bad as the first two years, but it's still there for about 10 seconds or so) and during idle-down when the ECU holds the engine rpm's just above idle for a few seconds before settling at idle. This happens everytime the engine idles-down... so every stop light, stop sign, and parking lot.
I checked the solenoid plugs on mine. I don't have the green one on the very left (looking at the engine from the front, like in the pics). I do have a white solenoid plug in the center, though. I have come to live with it, as annoying as it is. It's annoying, yes, but it seems to be a trade-off as a lot of four cylinders are very rough at idle, which the Protege is not.
-Jerry
I checked the solenoid plugs on mine. I don't have the green one on the very left (looking at the engine from the front, like in the pics). I do have a white solenoid plug in the center, though. I have come to live with it, as annoying as it is. It's annoying, yes, but it seems to be a trade-off as a lot of four cylinders are very rough at idle, which the Protege is not.
-Jerry
May-11th-2002, 11:24 AM
#43
Juggalo
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 763
Originally posted by mnkyboy
Im still clueless on what this does on your car/what it wont be doing on your car if you unplug it. Is this posted somewhere, because I missed it (i dont see it anywhere )
Im still clueless on what this does on your car/what it wont be doing on your car if you unplug it. Is this posted somewhere, because I missed it (i dont see it anywhere
)
Oh man oh man, hey you know how when most people get an idea in their head a light bulb appears and goes "ding". Well my friend I think when you get an idea there are two sticks that appear over head scratching together trying to get a spark....
Anyway yes it has been discussed thoroughly in this thread. The solenoid is hookd up to that electrical sensor which communicates with the ecu. It has sumthin to do with temp readings and whether or not to actuate the solenoid. Well the solenoid is actuated by that vacuum line, when the temp as below a certain setpoint determined by the ecu. It then activates those whacky VTCS plates. If you unplug the hose and seal it off, the computer seems to be fooled into thinking everything is kosher, but the solenoid never actuates, and those damn irritating as hell plates don't rattle. At least that's whats I've gathered from this thread, someone else might be able to explain it a little better, but I think I covered the jist of the idea.
May-11th-2002, 12:08 PM
#44
a.k.a. spydermonkey
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,413
Originally posted by Sweedenhouse
Oh man oh man, hey you know how when most people get an idea in their head a light bulb appears and goes "ding". Well my friend I think when you get an idea there are two sticks that appear over head scratching together trying to get a spark....
...
At least that's whats I've gathered from this thread, someone else might be able to explain it a little better, but I think I covered the jist of the idea.
Oh man oh man, hey you know how when most people get an idea in their head a light bulb appears and goes "ding". Well my friend I think when you get an idea there are two sticks that appear over head scratching together trying to get a spark....
...
At least that's whats I've gathered from this thread, someone else might be able to explain it a little better, but I think I covered the jist of the idea.
You sound like you arent sure yourself, since you said "At least thats what Ive gathered...I "think" I covered the idea."What Im trying to find is what exactly that thing does. Not spectulation and a string of threads to try to put a theory on it.
May-11th-2002, 12:52 PM
#45
Juggalo
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 763
Originally posted by mnkyboy
Why do you always have to be such a smartass! LOL You sound like you arent sure yourself, since you said "At least thats what Ive gathered...I "think" I covered the idea."
What Im trying to find is what exactly that thing does. Not spectulation and a string of threads to try to put a theory on it.
Why do you always have to be such a smartass! LOL
You sound like you arent sure yourself, since you said "At least thats what Ive gathered...I "think" I covered the idea."What Im trying to find is what exactly that thing does. Not spectulation and a string of threads to try to put a theory on it.