mamisano

Hey all, new to this site and the new wife and I are looking at picking up a new ES for her to drive.

We want to order a FULLY LOADED, automatic ES and some of the prices I have seen on here are hard to believe. Carpoint lists a fully loaded ES, Auto, Moonroof, 6-disc, ABS, Premium Package, Alarm, Mirror for $20,050 MSRP and $18,240 Invoice. How are some of you getting them for BELOW INVOICE (not including $1500 cash back)?

I work for IBM and qualify for the S-Plan which will allow me to purchase car for slightly below invoice. My wife also just graduated college and is elligible for $500 discount. We are going with the 0% rather than $1500 because it works out to $10 less/month.

Any reason why some of you are getting cars below invoice? Help, before I make this purchase I want to make sure I get the BEST deal possible.

Regards,

Traveler

Find a good dealer. I purchased my ES in February of last year. The only thing we didn't get was the automatic but list plus dealer invoice was $19,300 due to prep, destination, splashgaurds and a couple other dealer installed things. We paid $17,200 for it after about an hour of going back and forth with the sales manager. Don't be afraid to dicker. List on the car with the options we got was $17,500 plus they had installed a couple extra things from the accessory book. Keep in mind that they still have some room to move and that if you walk out of there they get diddly. As long as you don't come across as too eager, then it's not that bad. Our dealer locally just had a special where they were selling loaded LX's with auto for only $15,500. ES's were only $16,900 with auto. That's the advertised price and is decent especially when compared with what Honda offers on the Civic.

funkdaddysmack

Hey Mike, welcome to the site. I was looking around the local mazda dealer a few weeks ago, and the most expensive ES I could find was in the high $16k range. It may not have been LOADED, but it had most of the good stuff. (Although it was 5spd, that could have lowered the price a bit). It had just about everything except for leather (i dunno if it's even offered on the Protege, I know the P5 has it) and 6 disc in dash.

If I were willing to pay upwards of $20k for a car, I'd get a new altima or something a little better than a protege (don't get me wrong, pros are great).

$20k msrp sounds way too high though even if fully loaded. Besides, do you really NEED that 6 disc in dash changer? I don't mind swappin' cds and saving a couple $$$... Anyways, that's just me. Maybe I'll stop by the dealer again tonight and see if I can find any other ones.

ProtegeMaster

I've spoken of this issue before. For over 20 years Consumer Reports (the primary publication of Consumers Union, a non-profit organization committed to testing products - including cars- and protecting consumers) has provided a new car pricing service. This service provides you with a printout of ALL the true costs of a particular car. This true price (i.e. the price the dealer paid the auto maker to get the car in the first place), was listed as the "invoice" price on this printout. This was an annoyance to dealers who didn't want you to know how much it really cost to get the car-- God forbid that a buyer not be a total, complete dumbass and rather be informed!

Dealers never quoted or otherwise showed you an 'invoice' price.

After awhile, auto makers and dealers decided to change the definition of what "invoice" meant, so that they could figure out a way to negate the validity of that "invoice" price-- Various dealer incentives and 'holdbacks' were put into place which made the invoice not truly reflect the actual cost shown. In simpler terms, the dealer flat out paid less than shown on the invoice to get the car. Once that system was set up, dealers all of a sudden were falling over themselves to show you the 'invoice'. "Hey, sucker! We're giving you a great deal! Check out the invoice! <sigh> Well, it's a real, real tough stretch for us, but we're going to sacrifice and give you a price below invoice because you're a real special friend to us. You're so special. Can I have a hug? <sob> I love you, man."

Ahhh, bullshit.

Consumers Union has been aware of this practice for some time, and has accordingly adjusted their data to again reflect the REAL cost of the car, referred to as the Consumer Reports Wholesale Price. This tells you, cut and dry, the true cost of the car. In it you get complete information, which includes an itemized listing of all vehicle options, accessories, etc.:

Listed by the MSRP (i.e. the sticker price)
Listed by the 'Invoice'
Listed by the Consumer Reports Wholesale Price (i.e. the ACTUAL cost)

Also included are tips on how best to negotiate, finance option information, current manufacturer cash back programs, and a complete review of the vehicle you requested. It's a complete, informative, source of information, and a powerful ally in helping you make the most of your hard earned money. There's no reason why you shouldn't use it wisely.

I'm a fervent supporter of Consumers Union, which is an honorable, responsible organization dedicated to protecting us, and have been surprised there aren't more people out there who know about them and actually take advantage of the services they offer. Check out the Consumer Reports website and click on the 'New Car Price Service' link. It's worth the $10 to potentially save thousands.

My motto is, "Don't be a total dumbass!! Go informed and save your money!"

And regarding that $20k+ Carpoint quote; I don't know where that price is coming from; maybe out of their ***. On Mazda's own web site you can configure an ES Pro in exactly the way you've noted, and the MSRP is $18,350.

pantherES

I just purchased mine ES for 17,422 without tax. Every option except 6 CD in dash changer. I didn't take the rebate. I have bought 2 new cars from the dealer before.

Other than that, do research. Go into the dealer and say you have been quoted $XX,XXX, and what can you do. Every dealer pays the same price for the same cars, and none want to lose a sale for a couple of hundred dollars.

Being in NY, there should be many Mazda dealers to shop around at. Try autotrader.com, use the new car tool, build the car you want and they will send e-mails up to four dealers at a time for quotes. Then you just sit back and wait.

Good Luck.

premdrumusr

Hey mike, I've become good friends with the person who sold me my used protege from the dealer. He tries to tell me about what they pay for these cars. The dealership I go to has someone leather installed on a few of their protege's and other vehicles. Its about a $849 "dealer installed option." Its not yet a factory option on the protege. I've seen prices for the 2002 protege's on this lot with Moonroof, foglights, ABS, premium package, and alarm. So that's all but two things you want. These prices are still only $17,822. The invoice on one of these babies about 15 g's and some change. My mom talked them down to 16,810 out the door with all taxes and everything and she didn't even mention trade yet. So, it is possible to find good deals on these cars but you just have to find a good dealership whos willing to wheel and deal.

jas9297

The S-Plan is actually NON-NEGOTIABLE. You should call up Mazda and get them to send you a copy of the S-Plan. The Plan instructs you on how to use it.

You should ask, and they have to show you, the "S-Plan" price on the actual invoice. The price is very close to invoice price, including options. On top of that, you get the incentive. I paid $16198 for a 2002.5 P5, 5-spd, silver, ABS, moon/side bags, and mats. Stock everything else. That is $16948 S-plan price, less $750 incentive.

The bad news is, the plan actually says the price is non-negotiable. The good news is, the plan PROHIBITS the dealer from charging you a "processing" or "documentation" fee. That saved me $269, since they were otherwise refusing to waive it.

If they object to any of this, you should call Mazda or bring with you a copy of the plan. I have a copy and the dealer had to abide by it.

Having said that, if you want to haggle on price, go in WITHOUT asking for the S-Plan price and see how low you can go!

kc5zom

It is very doubtful that you will get a better deal without using your S-Plan rebate. The S-Plan price is only slightly above dealer holdback (which is a basic estimate of what the dealership paid for the vehicle, although they get rebates and incentives from Mazda that actually lower that cost). The holdback is generally a couple of hundred dollars (basically a percentage of the invoice or MSRP) and is kind of an extra profit the dealership makes by selling the vehicle in a certain time period. The general public can not generally get a vehicle below invoice price (but it can happen if the dealership is desperate enough to get rid of the vehicle) without rebates or incentives. Basically the only way you will get a better deal is if you have a lot of very flexible incentives that you cannot use if you take the S-Plan price. Otherwise just take the S-Plan price and start worrying about financing (where they can really screw you).

Nuder

I bought my ES 2.0 for 14,900 something...close to 15,00. Its an automatic, moonroof, everything but ABS and 6 disc changer. It sucks about the ABS but its 4 wheel disc brakes which not ALL cars have it. My brother just bought a 2002 Civic it has ABS but doesnt have 4 wheel disc brakes...well thats it...see ya guys.


p.s. My brother is an accountant so he really really really!!! lowered the price of the car.

tester

The average price I see here for a ES is 17K, that is...
17000USD * 1.58 echange rate = 26792Can

I paid 21500Can for my ES, loaded (Canadian GT package) except 6 pack CD.

You guys are getting hosed....

Nuder

we're not getting hosed dumbass....we get paid more and our cars have to cost a little more as well. I'm sure you get paid what's known as minimum wage...and with that you can buy a brand new car. Cause the dollar aint worth much up there.

Toru

Actually, there is quite an active export market for Canadian vehicles - both late model used and new.

It turns out that we really do pay less for the same car in Canada.

Now some automakers are threatening to not honor warranties on out-of-country units to combat this, but I don't think they will succeed.

The truth is, if they charged the same in Canada as in the US, Canadians would buy fewer vehicles and keep them longer - bad for the industry.

See http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020206-1.htm

To quote:

"Consumers in Britain typically have to pay thousands of dollars more for identical cars compared to people on the continent. These pricing policies also exist in North America, where Americans are forced to pay thousands more for the same car than Canadians." (my emphasis)

sage11x

This might not be of much help but...

I own a 2001 Protege ES Special Edition 5-speed. Fully loaded except I didn't get ABS or side airbags.
Don't ask what the Special Edition means- I'm pretty sure it was an early production model though. I got mine for $15,500 U.S. after tax and delivery with only 16 miles on the clock (most of which I put on).

A little explanation on how I got this price:

1. The ONLY manual trans ES in Southeast Michigan (seemed eager to sell- guess they don't sell a lot of manual ES's)

2. S-plan

3. $500 rebate for buying outright

4. FREE sunroof- a $700 option. Why? Because at the time Mazda sold an ES premium package that included sunroof, ABS and side airbags for $850. My car appears to have pre-dated that package- which is certainly a better deal than $700 for just the sunroof. So the dealer just took it off the price. They even threw in the wind deflector and floor mats.

For some the exclusion of ABS and side airbags wouldn't be worth the price cut, but honestly I don't miss them. Although the ABS would probably get me a discount on my insurance! Remember this is an import $$$.

tester

You really must be stuipd. Do you know why it's called CONVERSION RATE??? You go to the bank and you can exchange your money for canadian dollars. It has nothing to do with how much money you make, the bank does not care.

That means you could come here and buy a car for less money than you buy it there for.


Read the follow up messages and you may understand..

ProtegeMaster

I actually hadn't ever considered the possibility of a Canadian buy costing less than here in the U.S.. Anyone know if such a thing is even legally possible for us U.S. citizens? Seems to me going up to Canada (which isn't too far away for me here in Oregon) and buying a car, then bringing it down back to the U.S. would make for legal problems. A few concerns:

Canadian spec cars often have slightly different trim/component levels than their U.S. counterparts. I wonder about emission controls (which are surely different in Canada), safety equipment, all that jazz, and whether they'd be up to code for what is mandated in the U.S..

What about import costs? As close as we are in many ways, Canada IS an international nation with autonomous laws and regulations that are different than the U.S.. Any time you import big ticket items from another country you surely have tarrifs and regulations to make sure you're following, and I'd wonder if this adds significantly to the costs you might save by buying from Canada in the first place.

Sometimes, unfortunately, there are some cool trim lines that just aren't offered on the Canadian model. I don't know why auto makers try and screw Canada, but this seems to happen from time to time. Based on this, in some ways your choices might be limited in Canada compared to the U.S..


Anyway, this is an interesting possibility-- Anyone had any experience with this kind of thing; buying in Canada and bringing it back to the U.S.? If it stands to save you money, I'd really consider it!

And oh yeah, on an unrelated, personal note, I think many of the things Canada does is better than that which we follow in the U.S.. Health care cost control, for instance, and making it available for those who couldn't otherwise afford it. Taking care of people, even if they're poor, should be the hallmark of a civilized nation, and Canada has this right. I'm not ungrateful for being an American or discount the blessings of our strengths, but I think Canada is a cool country (even if they kicked our *** in Olympic hockey!). And dude, the women in Vancouver BC are hot!