Mazda dealership botched my oil change
April-4th-2007, 10:20 PM
#1
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Mazda dealership botched my oil change
I changed the oil myself with 500 miles on my 2007 Speed3.
In a rush, and with some misgivings (since I've read the horror stories), I had the next oil change done (3100 mi) at the Mazda dealership. Dropped the car off with them this morning.
I got a call from them this evening saying that they would need to keep the car an extra day because the mechanic had badly overfilled the oil. I'm aware of the dangers of running with overfilled oil so I asked the service manager bluntly if the car had been started after oil was refilled. He assured me that the mechanic caught it in time and did NOT start the car. He went on to tell me that they will need to pull off the manifold and check for oil "as a precautionary measure".
Does this explanation sound reasonable? Is there anything I should check tomorrow when I pick up the car to determine whether any real damage was done? Is there anything I should get clarified from the mechanic or service manager when I pick up the car? What signs of engine damage should I keep an eye out for after I get the car back?
Needless to say, I will be doing my own oil changes from now on...
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
In a rush, and with some misgivings (since I've read the horror stories), I had the next oil change done (3100 mi) at the Mazda dealership. Dropped the car off with them this morning.
I got a call from them this evening saying that they would need to keep the car an extra day because the mechanic had badly overfilled the oil. I'm aware of the dangers of running with overfilled oil so I asked the service manager bluntly if the car had been started after oil was refilled. He assured me that the mechanic caught it in time and did NOT start the car. He went on to tell me that they will need to pull off the manifold and check for oil "as a precautionary measure".
Does this explanation sound reasonable? Is there anything I should check tomorrow when I pick up the car to determine whether any real damage was done? Is there anything I should get clarified from the mechanic or service manager when I pick up the car? What signs of engine damage should I keep an eye out for after I get the car back?
Needless to say, I will be doing my own oil changes from now on...
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
April-6th-2007, 07:02 AM
#2
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Location: Southern Ontario
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Unless the mechanic stuffed in double or triple the amount of oil they would only be a need to drop out the oil and then fill properly. I would ask for this mistake to be recorded by the dealership, signed and documented for any future problem you may encounter in the future. I would not accept the error and just walk away without any documentation. If you are very particular, like me, get the contact number for the regional manager and direct any related questions to them regarding any potential damages. You just helped me make up my mind for the free oil change my dealership gave me. Sounds like they started it up to me.
April-7th-2007, 12:21 PM
#3
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day 2:
I spoke with the service manager in the morning by phone. When I pressed him on the question of how much oil they accidentally put in, he estimated 12 quarts, but said that most of it "just spilled out of the motor", implying that no real damage was done. He went on to explain that they need to clean the oil from the throttle body, and that the car might not be ready for another day if they can't get the throttle body gasket today. I expressed some concern and skepticism that the car was not started after the massive overfill and he again insisted that it wasn't, that the mechanic had caught it in time, and that doing so would have destroyed the motor. His statement that this mechanic has 12 years of experience was not particularly comforting to me. He assured me that he would provide full documentation of the error (which, incidentally, he blamed on a glitch in the oil dispensing machine) and the corrective actions taken subsequently. Finally, he invited me to drop by today so that he could show me the car and explain exactly what they are doing.
I went to the dealer later in the morning, saw my car, and spoke with the mechanic who did the work. He was extremely apologetic, saying he "felt sick over it", and seemed sincere to me. He was in no way dismissive of his mistake or of the potential damage to the motor. He was not the dimwitted noob I expected to find, and at this point I could only conclude that he made an honest mistake and would do his best to make it right. I am not excusing the mistake, and when the time comes, I will demand a new motor if necessary.
With the air intake removed, I could see oil pooled inside the throttle body. The mechanic estimated that 20 quarts went into the motor before he realized it. His belief is that the oil filled up into the head, leaked out through an open intake valve, and down into the intake manifold. [Others have pointed out to me that the PCV system is a more likely route of oil info the manifold, but the mechanic didn't buy this when I later suggested it to him.]
I spoke with the mechanic again in the evening and he said he had finished cleaning the oil from manifold and throttle body and would have my car ready for me the following day. I told the service manager than I expected full documentation of the mistake and the steps taken to correct it. He promised to provide this.
day 3:
After hearing nothing from the service department by 4pm, I spoke with the mechanic by phone and he said my car was ready. He told me he'd "been running it since 11am", and had taken it for 2 10-mile test drives, and that everything looked good. When I asked, he acknowledged that there was some smoke when he first started it, and attributed this to a small amount of oil probably having spilled into the exhaust. He also mentioned that he had cleaned some oil from the EGR tube. I asked if he could make sure those details made it into the service record and he said he would. Lastly, he noted that he had pressure washed the motor to clean any oil off the exterior. As an afterthought, I asked what oil he had used and he said 5W-20. I told him that the manual calls for 5W-30; he apologized and said he would replace the oil with 5W-30 right away.
I arrived at the dealer at 5pm (with a friend as my witness) to pick up the car. The mechanic had already left. At idle, the motor sounded a little different to me, although I have trouble describing the difference. During the test drive I let it warm up well before testing the power. The power seemed ok to me and I was still able to hit the high RPMs. A couple of times, I noticed some irregularity, almost a faint cough, as motor was returning to idle. My friend, who knows the car well, also drove it and I'll let him post his comments below.
As I requested, the service dept documented the error and corrective actions in the service record. The typed Comments section of service report reads:
During a routine service the engine was filled with approx 20 quarts of oil due to malfunction of oil dispensing equipment, as a result oil entered into the cylinder head through an open intake valve, and into intake manifold, a small amount of oil pooled into the throttle body. The manifold and throttle body were removed and cleaned thoroughly. The drive by wire sensor was not replaced, customer was provided a rental car for 3 days while the work was completed
I told them I was unsatisfied with the description because the mechanic himself had mentioned a few other things to me which had not been recorded (cleaning of EGR tube and oil getting into exhaust). The service manager explained that the report had been posted to their system already and that there was no way for them to modify it now. I insisted that this was unacceptable to me and he agreed to add some hand-written notes to my service record. He wrote:
Also removed EGR tube + cleaned oil + also removed all plugs and coils cleaned residue as required. Note: some oil in exhaust cleaned as needed.
He initialed his changes, made a photocopy for himself, and that was it. I left.
I am concerned that permanent damage may have been done to my motor but I'm not sure how to determine it.
Comments/suggestions appreciated.
I spoke with the service manager in the morning by phone. When I pressed him on the question of how much oil they accidentally put in, he estimated 12 quarts, but said that most of it "just spilled out of the motor", implying that no real damage was done. He went on to explain that they need to clean the oil from the throttle body, and that the car might not be ready for another day if they can't get the throttle body gasket today. I expressed some concern and skepticism that the car was not started after the massive overfill and he again insisted that it wasn't, that the mechanic had caught it in time, and that doing so would have destroyed the motor. His statement that this mechanic has 12 years of experience was not particularly comforting to me. He assured me that he would provide full documentation of the error (which, incidentally, he blamed on a glitch in the oil dispensing machine) and the corrective actions taken subsequently. Finally, he invited me to drop by today so that he could show me the car and explain exactly what they are doing.
I went to the dealer later in the morning, saw my car, and spoke with the mechanic who did the work. He was extremely apologetic, saying he "felt sick over it", and seemed sincere to me. He was in no way dismissive of his mistake or of the potential damage to the motor. He was not the dimwitted noob I expected to find, and at this point I could only conclude that he made an honest mistake and would do his best to make it right. I am not excusing the mistake, and when the time comes, I will demand a new motor if necessary.
With the air intake removed, I could see oil pooled inside the throttle body. The mechanic estimated that 20 quarts went into the motor before he realized it. His belief is that the oil filled up into the head, leaked out through an open intake valve, and down into the intake manifold. [Others have pointed out to me that the PCV system is a more likely route of oil info the manifold, but the mechanic didn't buy this when I later suggested it to him.]
I spoke with the mechanic again in the evening and he said he had finished cleaning the oil from manifold and throttle body and would have my car ready for me the following day. I told the service manager than I expected full documentation of the mistake and the steps taken to correct it. He promised to provide this.
day 3:
After hearing nothing from the service department by 4pm, I spoke with the mechanic by phone and he said my car was ready. He told me he'd "been running it since 11am", and had taken it for 2 10-mile test drives, and that everything looked good. When I asked, he acknowledged that there was some smoke when he first started it, and attributed this to a small amount of oil probably having spilled into the exhaust. He also mentioned that he had cleaned some oil from the EGR tube. I asked if he could make sure those details made it into the service record and he said he would. Lastly, he noted that he had pressure washed the motor to clean any oil off the exterior. As an afterthought, I asked what oil he had used and he said 5W-20. I told him that the manual calls for 5W-30; he apologized and said he would replace the oil with 5W-30 right away.
I arrived at the dealer at 5pm (with a friend as my witness) to pick up the car. The mechanic had already left. At idle, the motor sounded a little different to me, although I have trouble describing the difference. During the test drive I let it warm up well before testing the power. The power seemed ok to me and I was still able to hit the high RPMs. A couple of times, I noticed some irregularity, almost a faint cough, as motor was returning to idle. My friend, who knows the car well, also drove it and I'll let him post his comments below.
As I requested, the service dept documented the error and corrective actions in the service record. The typed Comments section of service report reads:
During a routine service the engine was filled with approx 20 quarts of oil due to malfunction of oil dispensing equipment, as a result oil entered into the cylinder head through an open intake valve, and into intake manifold, a small amount of oil pooled into the throttle body. The manifold and throttle body were removed and cleaned thoroughly. The drive by wire sensor was not replaced, customer was provided a rental car for 3 days while the work was completed
I told them I was unsatisfied with the description because the mechanic himself had mentioned a few other things to me which had not been recorded (cleaning of EGR tube and oil getting into exhaust). The service manager explained that the report had been posted to their system already and that there was no way for them to modify it now. I insisted that this was unacceptable to me and he agreed to add some hand-written notes to my service record. He wrote:
Also removed EGR tube + cleaned oil + also removed all plugs and coils cleaned residue as required. Note: some oil in exhaust cleaned as needed.
He initialed his changes, made a photocopy for himself, and that was it. I left.
I am concerned that permanent damage may have been done to my motor but I'm not sure how to determine it.
Comments/suggestions appreciated.
April-7th-2007, 05:40 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 438
Is it the same dealership you bought it from? Tell them to demo the car and replace it, that would totally turn me off the car. Maybe its just me but I personally would want a new car because of the mileage, its brand friggin new and had 20 quarts of oil, 5 x the normal, thats bullcrap. I'm not trying to make you upset but its actually peeved me off as well because I'm pretty sure you feel the same way about cars as I do.
At the very least as I mentioned make sure everything is well documented and I would definitely arrage for the regional manager to set up an appointment with yourself to fully document everything. This is not a minor screw up , it's major and you need to cover yourself in case of any problems. Closely watch your gas mileage, smells, any exhaust smoke and keep a record of everything you notice. I might be paranoid but document everything. Least they can do is offer free services during the warranty period for THEIR major screw up.
I'm pretty sure if they covered everything and cleaned it all out it should be fine but don't take any chances.
At the very least as I mentioned make sure everything is well documented and I would definitely arrage for the regional manager to set up an appointment with yourself to fully document everything. This is not a minor screw up , it's major and you need to cover yourself in case of any problems. Closely watch your gas mileage, smells, any exhaust smoke and keep a record of everything you notice. I might be paranoid but document everything. Least they can do is offer free services during the warranty period for THEIR major screw up.
I'm pretty sure if they covered everything and cleaned it all out it should be fine but don't take any chances.
April-7th-2007, 06:08 PM
#6
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Here are the comments from my friend, who was there when I picked up the car, and also took it for a test drive:
Unfortunately we don't have any other speed3s around here to compare to, but the idle sounds much more rough to me than before. I remember the speed3 having a very distinct and synchronized electronic tick sound at idle (the fuel injectors I assume) which was not masked by any other noises, the engine was very quiet if I remember right. Now there seems to be some odd background noise that I just can't describe. Also at idle listening from the exhaust it seems to miss every once and a while, especially if we'd rev the car to about 2500rpm then let it fall back to idle, I could hear the engine missing on the way back down occasionally.
Now all of these things are very minor and hard to pick out, but what got me was when I got on the freeway, I did a shift from 2nd to 3rd at about 5k rpm and we actually got a slight backfire. I could not reproduce it for the rest of the drive but this seemed quite bad. Is it possibly some fluke that I got the timing right with my clutch/gas/rpm combo and this happens occasionally on the speed3s or is this absolutely a sign we've got a problem?
The mechanic did state that there was a small puff of black smoke when he started the car so I was thinking maybe there was still some unburned oil somewhere on the intake side that got sucked through the engine and burned (although oil should burn blue, but who knows how much he was paying attention).
To me all of these symptoms sound like a slightly bent exhaust valve. All sound descriptions aside the only way to know for sure is a full compression/leak down test. I've done this many times on Honda's and have all the tools to do it, I imagine the speed3 would be very similar? If not, based on what we've heard would you recommend we take it somewhere and have a compression + leak down test performed to ensure the integrity of the engine? Thanks for the help!
Unfortunately we don't have any other speed3s around here to compare to, but the idle sounds much more rough to me than before. I remember the speed3 having a very distinct and synchronized electronic tick sound at idle (the fuel injectors I assume) which was not masked by any other noises, the engine was very quiet if I remember right. Now there seems to be some odd background noise that I just can't describe. Also at idle listening from the exhaust it seems to miss every once and a while, especially if we'd rev the car to about 2500rpm then let it fall back to idle, I could hear the engine missing on the way back down occasionally.
Now all of these things are very minor and hard to pick out, but what got me was when I got on the freeway, I did a shift from 2nd to 3rd at about 5k rpm and we actually got a slight backfire. I could not reproduce it for the rest of the drive but this seemed quite bad. Is it possibly some fluke that I got the timing right with my clutch/gas/rpm combo and this happens occasionally on the speed3s or is this absolutely a sign we've got a problem?
The mechanic did state that there was a small puff of black smoke when he started the car so I was thinking maybe there was still some unburned oil somewhere on the intake side that got sucked through the engine and burned (although oil should burn blue, but who knows how much he was paying attention).
To me all of these symptoms sound like a slightly bent exhaust valve. All sound descriptions aside the only way to know for sure is a full compression/leak down test. I've done this many times on Honda's and have all the tools to do it, I imagine the speed3 would be very similar? If not, based on what we've heard would you recommend we take it somewhere and have a compression + leak down test performed to ensure the integrity of the engine? Thanks for the help!
April-7th-2007, 07:01 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Shasta
Is it the same dealership you bought it from?
Originally Posted by Shasta
At the very least as I mentioned make sure everything is well documented and I would definitely arrage for the regional manager to set up an appointment with yourself to fully document everything. This is not a minor screw up , it's major and you need to cover yourself in case of any problems. Closely watch your gas mileage, smells, any exhaust smoke and keep a record of everything you notice. I might be paranoid but document everything. Least they can do is offer free services during the warranty period for THEIR major screw up.
I'm pretty sure if they covered everything and cleaned it all out it should be fine but don't take any chances.
I'm pretty sure if they covered everything and cleaned it all out it should be fine but don't take any chances.
I also told the service manager that I was very concerned about damage having been done to the motor, and that I wanted them to compensate me with an extended warranty. His answer: "we won't do that. I've seen this happen a number of times before and it's not that big a deal as long as you clean it up right". This guy was not the least concerned with my happiness and I realized that I wasn't going to get anywhere with him.
At this point, my plan is to report the incident to the BBB and to Mazda USA, and to have compression and leakdown tests done on the car (by an independent shop that I trust). If the test results come back ok and I can't show evidence of any damage, I don't think I have any legal standing to demand a new car or motor. Under no circumstances will I have any further tests or work done at this dealership.
One other question: if I report the incident to Mazda, can they legally deny my request to purchase an extended warranty on this car, based on the chance that the vehicle may already be damaged?
April-7th-2007, 07:42 PM
#8
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I don't know about the legal aspect of extended warranties but you definitely need to contact another Mazda dealership and explain the situation, the service manager is an ahole and if if this happened before then they should not have a license to service cars, the guys an a-hole. I worked for Honda for almost 10 years working directly in the service area and there are regional managers who manage warranty claims and such, at least they did for Honda. If this guy thinks this is an acceptable mistake, my question is when exactly did they realize they dumped in 20 litres of oil, before or after they started it. Pursue what are doing with BBB and Mazda USA.
I probably have you all charged up now and don't mean to add any other drama to an already sensitive situation but by the sounds of it, your not stupid nor going to get screwed around so eventually, with a bit of running around, you will get satisfaction. You know the car better then any mechanic or service manager so don't let them tell you, your imagining things with noises, sputters and such.
Keep us posted, this is really interesting. Good luck. Like I say eventually it will get sorted and you can put this stressful situation behind you and get back to enjoying your new Speed.
I probably have you all charged up now and don't mean to add any other drama to an already sensitive situation but by the sounds of it, your not stupid nor going to get screwed around so eventually, with a bit of running around, you will get satisfaction. You know the car better then any mechanic or service manager so don't let them tell you, your imagining things with noises, sputters and such.
Keep us posted, this is really interesting. Good luck. Like I say eventually it will get sorted and you can put this stressful situation behind you and get back to enjoying your new Speed.
Last edited by Shasta; April-7th-2007 at 07:45 PM.
April-7th-2007, 08:08 PM
#9
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Location: burlington, ON....it's west of Toronto
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seriously!!! how do you over fill it by THAT MUCH????
i do a coop at canadian tire, and even the "not to bright" people dont even manage that...
it isnt that hard, you just check the specs on the car, add in that much oil, run the car, check the dipstick, then add or remove oil if necessary...
like, come on, it isnt that diffilcult!!
the mechanic must have walked off or something, and forgot about it...
thats bull tho... i woulda been SO pissed, cuz im SO pretective of my mazda3. when it's warm out, i'll wash it every other day... i only put synthethic oil in it, and im super careful when im driving it.... and i personally did the oil change at my co-op
i do a coop at canadian tire, and even the "not to bright" people dont even manage that...
it isnt that hard, you just check the specs on the car, add in that much oil, run the car, check the dipstick, then add or remove oil if necessary...
like, come on, it isnt that diffilcult!!
the mechanic must have walked off or something, and forgot about it...
thats bull tho... i woulda been SO pissed, cuz im SO pretective of my mazda3. when it's warm out, i'll wash it every other day... i only put synthethic oil in it, and im super careful when im driving it.... and i personally did the oil change at my co-op
April-11th-2007, 09:38 AM
#10
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UPDATE: Results of Compression and Leakdown Tests
compression: 165, 170, 170, 170
leakage: 2%, 2%, 1%, 2%
Tests were run by an independednt shop that I trust. Based on these results, should I assume that my car is ok, or are there other things to test for or look for?
compression: 165, 170, 170, 170
leakage: 2%, 2%, 1%, 2%
Tests were run by an independednt shop that I trust. Based on these results, should I assume that my car is ok, or are there other things to test for or look for?
April-22nd-2007, 07:23 PM
#11
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HI, I was just browsing through this forum as I have a friend who owns a Mazda Protege and was wondering about what mods to do. When I saw this thread I thought I should register and give my opinion as an Auto Technician. Just so you know, I have been working in dealerships for nearly 12 years and currently work at a SAAB dealership. I know they aren't Mazdas, they're a lot worse.
Anyway, to start with, I have no idea how the tech could have overfilled the engine by such a large amount. However, I can assure you that he did not start the engine as there is little chance it would have started with that much oil in it.
I believe the technician did as much as was required and there is little to no chance of this causing a failure in your engine. The only thing that could possibly be damaged by what happened is your catalytic converter as they don't like getting filled with oil or fuel for any length of time. However, I don't believe you will have any long term damage to your cat as I have seen SAABs dump 3-4l of oil through the exhaust after a turbo failure and after a good long drive to burn the oil out of the exhaust they were fine.
Oh, when I said a long drive, I meant 30-40 minutes down the highway to get the smoke to clear. If the technician told you it blew a little but of smoke after starting it up then you have nothing to worry about as it means a very small amount went into the exhaust.
The only thing I would have done differently, is I would have also changed the spark plugs. Once they are fouled they are never going to work as well as they used to. We have many SAABs on the lot that flood on cold days and we have to change the spark plugs and the oil so I imagine your spark plugs might be a little worse off. While there is the slight possibility that this could cause your different idle noise, I think it is more likely that you think you are hearing something because you are listening to it more than you normally would.
If I was you, I'd put this incident behind you and enjoy your car.
Anyway, to start with, I have no idea how the tech could have overfilled the engine by such a large amount. However, I can assure you that he did not start the engine as there is little chance it would have started with that much oil in it.
I believe the technician did as much as was required and there is little to no chance of this causing a failure in your engine. The only thing that could possibly be damaged by what happened is your catalytic converter as they don't like getting filled with oil or fuel for any length of time. However, I don't believe you will have any long term damage to your cat as I have seen SAABs dump 3-4l of oil through the exhaust after a turbo failure and after a good long drive to burn the oil out of the exhaust they were fine.
Oh, when I said a long drive, I meant 30-40 minutes down the highway to get the smoke to clear. If the technician told you it blew a little but of smoke after starting it up then you have nothing to worry about as it means a very small amount went into the exhaust.
The only thing I would have done differently, is I would have also changed the spark plugs. Once they are fouled they are never going to work as well as they used to. We have many SAABs on the lot that flood on cold days and we have to change the spark plugs and the oil so I imagine your spark plugs might be a little worse off. While there is the slight possibility that this could cause your different idle noise, I think it is more likely that you think you are hearing something because you are listening to it more than you normally would.
If I was you, I'd put this incident behind you and enjoy your car.
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