Fuel Octane recomendations
September-16th-2002, 07:53 PM
#46
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 81
Sea_P5, how about this. Try a couple tanks of 93 in your car. See if it makes a difference. If it doesn't You, I, BigMatt and Polar will all know that there IS a difference somewhere. And if you do notice a difference you can thank me later.
September-16th-2002, 09:07 PM
#48
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 51
thought that i would provide sage with some artillery since many of you people always want proof of peoples opinions with dyno charts.......well here you go!
in the most recent Sport Compact Car magazine, they did just that (albeit the car was a 350Z, the underlying concept remains the same) Click here and scroll about 1/4 of the page down until you see the dyno chart. what you disbelievers will notice is that the 350Z gained 5HP
by using a higher grade octane.
for all you LMF's out there, here's the dyno chart for your pleasure:
hope this helped fight your cause sage!!
in the most recent Sport Compact Car magazine, they did just that (albeit the car was a 350Z, the underlying concept remains the same) Click here and scroll about 1/4 of the page down until you see the dyno chart. what you disbelievers will notice is that the 350Z gained 5HP
by using a higher grade octane.for all you LMF's out there, here's the dyno chart for your pleasure:
hope this helped fight your cause sage!!
September-16th-2002, 10:02 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 179
Originally posted by sage11x
Yes, I live in the U.S.
Michigan to be exact.
And Sea_P5, for the love of all that is holy please READ!
If you had read my post you would realize that I thought the same thing until I looked in my door and saw "ES 2.0 Special Edition". Kinda rules out the whole 'special-edition-is-the-MP3' thing.
Hey Snype... Did your car come with a manual specific to the MP3 or does it say the same thing mine does?
Yes, I live in the U.S.
Michigan to be exact.
And Sea_P5, for the love of all that is holy please READ!
If you had read my post you would realize that I thought the same thing until I looked in my door and saw "ES 2.0 Special Edition". Kinda rules out the whole 'special-edition-is-the-MP3' thing.
Hey Snype... Did your car come with a manual specific to the MP3 or does it say the same thing mine does?
Having said that said: I do have the quote about the 2.0-liter engine (Special Edition). Now, you might want to look at your manual page 10-5 For the tire spec. note the 205*45zr17 88W*
* Only for special edition.
Now, what size are your tires?
September-16th-2002, 10:06 PM
#50
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
Okay. Heres something stupid for you. 100 octane fuel is usually racing grade. Something interesting about racing grade is that it has more explosive force than the regular gasoline you buy off the pump. It also usually contains some amount of lead, which is bad for our cars. It was either that or they added one of those stupid octane boosters (I don't believe I have ever seen one go as high as 100 but hey, I'm young and I don't buy octane boosters) to a car that really should have been running a higher octane fuel in the first place. You put that in a Protege 2.0L and try a dyno you will notice something:
A small decrease in horsepower.
Which is why you paid for that higher octane fuel in the first place, right?
Just a little question for you guys. What do you think it says when you open the manual for a new Z? It probably says this car requires 91 octane or higher fuel because we went to great lengths to drag so much horsepower out of a little engine. It might also say hey you could use 87 but you won't get as much performance because I have to detune myself to prevent me from running like crap. Of course I don't know of anywhere in the Southern United States where you can actually buy higher than 91 off the pump.
A small decrease in horsepower.
Which is why you paid for that higher octane fuel in the first place, right?
Just a little question for you guys. What do you think it says when you open the manual for a new Z? It probably says this car requires 91 octane or higher fuel because we went to great lengths to drag so much horsepower out of a little engine. It might also say hey you could use 87 but you won't get as much performance because I have to detune myself to prevent me from running like crap. Of course I don't know of anywhere in the Southern United States where you can actually buy higher than 91 off the pump.
Last edited by kc5zom; September-16th-2002 at 10:11 PM.
September-16th-2002, 10:16 PM
#51
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
Originally posted by Snype451
Sage11x, My manual, (Protege 2001 Owner's manual) on the first page says: "Please be aware that this manual applies to all models. equpment and options. As a result, you may find some explanations for equipment not installed on your vehicle."
Having said that said: I do have the quote about the 2.0-liter engine (Special Edition). Now, you might want to look at your manual page 10-5 For the tire spec. note the 205*45zr17 88W*
* Only for special edition.
Now, what size are your tires?
Sage11x, My manual, (Protege 2001 Owner's manual) on the first page says: "Please be aware that this manual applies to all models. equpment and options. As a result, you may find some explanations for equipment not installed on your vehicle."
Having said that said: I do have the quote about the 2.0-liter engine (Special Edition). Now, you might want to look at your manual page 10-5 For the tire spec. note the 205*45zr17 88W*
* Only for special edition.
Now, what size are your tires?
September-16th-2002, 10:29 PM
#52
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26
All this talk about octane and no one seemed to mention why they recommend 91+ for the MP3. The MP3 requires a higher octance because of the increased timing on the ECU. Since the P5, ES 2.0 use the same ECU's, they do not have advanced timing. End of discussion here, use what the manual recommends for whatever motor you have. Of, course you can use a higher octance for a vehicle that it isn't recommended for, but with out increasing the timing, you probably wont see all the gains of using it.
Last edited by APEXistud; September-18th-2002 at 06:45 AM.
September-16th-2002, 10:48 PM
#53
WAZZU
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 613
I have tried to explain this several times. But they are being mislead by the manual.
But no one seems to want to read my post.
But no one seems to want to read my post.
Originally posted by SEA_P5
I currently do not understand the original purpose of this thread? Are you trying to find others to justify your purchase of more expense octane for your vehicle?
Why even post if you should use a higher octane when you have already made up your mind that the higher octane helps. I am sorry to bash your thread, but I find no real reason to go to a higher octane if the manual does not require it. The only time that I see a higher octane is needed is if you change the ECU to change the HP rating, change the rods/pistons to a higher quality or put in a Turbo.
So please do not take this post as being offensive. I just find it hard to swallow why so many people want to use a higher octane when they do not need it.
I currently do not understand the original purpose of this thread? Are you trying to find others to justify your purchase of more expense octane for your vehicle?
Why even post if you should use a higher octane when you have already made up your mind that the higher octane helps. I am sorry to bash your thread, but I find no real reason to go to a higher octane if the manual does not require it. The only time that I see a higher octane is needed is if you change the ECU to change the HP rating, change the rods/pistons to a higher quality or put in a Turbo.
So please do not take this post as being offensive. I just find it hard to swallow why so many people want to use a higher octane when they do not need it.
September-16th-2002, 10:54 PM
#54
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 39
Originally posted by sage11x
OH!!! How old are you little man? It's from John Carpenters They Live- and Rowdy Roddy Piper said it first.
By the way, watch Evil Dead 1, 2, and Army of Darkness. All Dukes lines are stolen.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
OH!!! How old are you little man? It's from John Carpenters They Live- and Rowdy Roddy Piper said it first.
By the way, watch Evil Dead 1, 2, and Army of Darkness. All Dukes lines are stolen.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
September-16th-2002, 11:06 PM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 179
Originally posted by APEXistud
All this talk about octane and no seemed to mention why they recommend 91+ for the MP3. The MP3 requires a higher octance because of the increased timing on the ECU. Since the P5, ES 2.0 use the same ECU's, they do not have advanced timing. End of discussion here, use what the manual recommends for whatever motor you have. Of, course you can use a higher octance for a vehicle that it isn't recommended for, but with out increasing the timing, you probably wont see all the gains of using it.
All this talk about octane and no seemed to mention why they recommend 91+ for the MP3. The MP3 requires a higher octance because of the increased timing on the ECU. Since the P5, ES 2.0 use the same ECU's, they do not have advanced timing. End of discussion here, use what the manual recommends for whatever motor you have. Of, course you can use a higher octance for a vehicle that it isn't recommended for, but with out increasing the timing, you probably wont see all the gains of using it.
1) how do I know if this has happened
2) how do I get it to stop retarding my timing? Do I have to reset my ECU everytime I fuel up?
September-17th-2002, 12:11 PM
#56
WAZZU
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 613
Switch your gas over to 91 if you have the MP3. Run a couple tanks of 91. (Usually 3 to 5 tanks) This should smooth out your idle speed.
How you can tell that your car is not liking the gas is if you feel like your car is lagging with regular driving. Kind of like something is pulling your car back...not smooth.
But usually once you change back to the correct octane. You should be fine. I do not really think that you need to reset your ECU.
Usually people reset their ECU for any intake modification. This is due to the larger volume of air going through the intake.
Later
How you can tell that your car is not liking the gas is if you feel like your car is lagging with regular driving. Kind of like something is pulling your car back...not smooth.
But usually once you change back to the correct octane. You should be fine. I do not really think that you need to reset your ECU.
Usually people reset their ECU for any intake modification. This is due to the larger volume of air going through the intake.
Later
September-18th-2002, 06:20 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 81
Originally posted by mazdanewbie
if the sticker in the door said special edition, maybe they used the sticker by accident or just didn't think it through...what is so frickin special about a 2.0 liter engine in an economy car? I mean come on between the diff. departments that handle door stickers and manuals do you really think it's an exact science? It seems waaaaay more likely that the mp3 was the intended recipient of the diff. fuel req. Have you considered asking mazda or your dealer about it instead of bothering with this thread which lost any real validity forever ago. Hey my manual has a Chile maintainance schedule in it therefore I must be....in South America!
sorry for being a smartass, this just seems silly.
if the sticker in the door said special edition, maybe they used the sticker by accident or just didn't think it through...what is so frickin special about a 2.0 liter engine in an economy car? I mean come on between the diff. departments that handle door stickers and manuals do you really think it's an exact science? It seems waaaaay more likely that the mp3 was the intended recipient of the diff. fuel req. Have you considered asking mazda or your dealer about it instead of bothering with this thread which lost any real validity forever ago. Hey my manual has a Chile maintainance schedule in it therefore I must be....in South America!
sorry for being a smartass, this just seems silly.
Yeah, and I'm sure that the correct VIN just ACCIDENTLY ended up on that sticker too.
Hey Snipe, very observant. Finally, someone brings a valid point against me.
Question, why is it that the MP3 requires (or is it recommends) premium fuel? Also, am I wrong in saying the MP3 makes its extra power thru 2-stage air intake and less restrictive exhaust?
September-18th-2002, 08:43 PM
#58
WAZZU
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 613
ECU...the timing is advance on the car creating the additional 10 HP or the 140HP for the MP3...
If you are insistant on using the higher octane, at least find someone with the MP3 and get a copy of their ECU print on your ECU board...this will then jump the timing up and give you the 140HP and the requirement of the higher octane.
There was a thread of a guy who tried this. I can not recall which one though
If you are insistant on using the higher octane, at least find someone with the MP3 and get a copy of their ECU print on your ECU board...this will then jump the timing up and give you the 140HP and the requirement of the higher octane.
There was a thread of a guy who tried this. I can not recall which one though
September-20th-2002, 05:10 PM
#59
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 39
Allright everyone...I have this out of my 2003 Protege 5 / Protege owners manual:
Page 4-2
----------------------------------
Your Mazda will perform best with fuel listed in the table below.
Fuel: Regular Unleaded Fuel
Octane Rating* (Anti-Knock index): 87 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (91 RON or above)
*U.S. federal law requires that octane ratings be posted on gasoline station pumps.
MAZDASPEED Protege
Use only premium unleaded fuel: 91 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (96 RON or above)
-----------------------------------
Seems fairly straight forward to me, unless you drive a MAZDASPEED, use 87.
Page 4-2
----------------------------------
Your Mazda will perform best with fuel listed in the table below.
Fuel: Regular Unleaded Fuel
Octane Rating* (Anti-Knock index): 87 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (91 RON or above)
*U.S. federal law requires that octane ratings be posted on gasoline station pumps.
MAZDASPEED Protege
Use only premium unleaded fuel: 91 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (96 RON or above)
-----------------------------------
Seems fairly straight forward to me, unless you drive a MAZDASPEED, use 87.
September-21st-2002, 06:10 AM
#60
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 70
Does anyone even know if the 2.0L even has a knock sensor???
Ive only had my car for a week... so i havent had a chance to really take my car for a real ride but i did notice... on the passenger side door jamb my sticker also says that i have a 2002 ES special edition..
Ive only had my car for a week... so i havent had a chance to really take my car for a real ride but i did notice... on the passenger side door jamb my sticker also says that i have a 2002 ES special edition..