JoeT

Hi Bankie, I wonder if your friend with the 626 got stuck with the infamous Ford tranny. Those units sucked massive Wookie *****.

I had a Neon from 94-97, didn't have any mechanical problems. Only after I got rid of it did I learn about what a deathtrap I had been driving.

Also, In the IIHS-HLDI crash tests, the second gen Neon's steering wheel broke off from the column. Yikes, and this is an improvement over the first gen Neon:

(second gen Neon) http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...html/99007.htm

(first gen Neon) http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...html/97019.htm

Bankie

I have no idea what tranny the 626 had. It very well could be the Ford tranny. Which should scare Mazda fans since Ford looks to be pushing their stuff into Mazdas even more.

Yeah, the wheel breaking off of the column would suck bad. Looks like if you're big into safety you should get an Impreza.

JoeT

Let's just say that the Protege is reasonably safe enough,

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...html/99005.htm

but thanks for the suggestion, Bankie. Cheers!

Bankie

The Pro does have a better rating. And they said that the driver's head went half way out of the window in the Pro (ouch).

But the Impreza, MiniCooper, and even the Civic, is rated better than both. It all depends on how much safety means to you when weighed against the other things you want from a car.

Thank you, JoeT for bringing something other than a biased opinion into this thread.

And man this thread has been hijacked to pieces.

ProtegeMaster

In earlier posts I've eluded to the incomplete, unreliable nature of commercial auto magazines, and I believe it once again bears prudent caution to mention the reality inherent of these publications.

Magazines of this kind (Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc.) are all commercial publications who report on vehicles and auto makers that actively advertise in their magazines. Additionally, they wish to convey a favorable image so that other auto makers might advertise with them in the future. The question to ask regarding such practice is this: How objective do you think a magazine is really going to be when their very existence is contingent on the successful sale of advertising? Do you think they’re really going to give you the full story? Do you think they’ll serve freedom in publishing? The answer is, never. Never in a million years. They are in the entertainment business, and they’re in the business of selling add space.

Car & Driver, et al will provide you with some useful information, like acceleration numbers, “fun factor” characteristics, etc., but in terms of securing a objective, fully honest (especially if it’s unflattering), complete report on a vehicle, you’re never gonna get it. Never. And you are being fooled into an oblivious, false sense of completion if you think these publications are really serving your complete best interests. They’re in it to protect themselves when it’s all said and done, not you.

Although many of you discount the merits of such publications, your only true hope of getting unbiased vehicle reports are from non-profit organizations who harbor no allegiance or ties to anyone. Consumers Union is one such organization-- It is their sole mission to test products for the express purpose of protecting, informing, and empowering people with the information they need to make wise, intelligent, financially viable choices. They cut through all the emotional bullshit so many of you relish and get down to the cold, hard facts about a car, good or bad. It is this somewhat stale quality that many scorn, but I’d rather have factual data that presents me with tangible analysis than emotional vagueness that serves me no thoughtful purpose. I’ll leave “fun factor” analysis to my own scrutiny, thank you very much.

And regarding the reliability of Dodge/Chrysler products, the Neon in particular has never once compiled an admirable record of reliability in its entire 8 year history. In fact, Neon has demonstrated consistent well below average reliability in every year of its production. Every year mucking in the worst possible reliability category. It’s reprehensible and offensive, as are those who make no mention of this shortcoming in their publications.

Many people choose to ignore reliability or simply don't care about it to begin with. This is a foolish mentality that costs such people both time and money; which many consider one and the same. I loathe the wanton lack of intelligence this mentality suggests-- In this, and countless other issues faced by our society.

JoeT

You are quite welcome, Bankie!

You are completely right - my buying decision was based on handling, safety, performance (not much but liveable), price (big one), and mechanical integrity.

ProtegeMaster, thanks for your entry. I will say that the Neon was not a terrible deal for $11,700, back in May 1994.

Bankie

Protege Master.

Captain Obvious strikes again.

We've already discussed the lack of merit in the writings of automotive magazines. I've also on many occasions in this thread stated that what you like about a car and what makes it fun is up to you.

And since you appear to have access to the factual data. Show me factual data for the reliability of anything that hasn't been affected by bias and marketing. Good luck. I hope that you don't believe Consumer Reports to be a factual publication.

BTW:
The $400 and one day for repairs to the headgasket at 130k was well worth the $2k I saved over the Pro I took for a drive in 95.


JoeT

The Neon WAS a great deal for the $12k I gave for it. In 1995 it was faster and handled far better than any of the other compacts at that time. But, that was 8 years ago. And why I'm here reading up on Pros now. I'm seriously trying to decide if I want the looks and options of the Pro5 or the speed of the SRT-4.
I like the Pros but in straight line performance (which was why this thread was started) the MSP can't compete with the SRT-4.

premdrumusr

I keep seeing mazda's are crap and yada yada yada yada.. if you wanna see crap take a look at my 99 protege ES.. the classic red is not a clear coat (cheap @$$es), the catalytc converter has needed to be replaced twice, the ignition coil.. then i've had the usual $175 per tire and then I've had the oil changes, the spark plugs already had to be replaced, I've had my car throwing codes for NO REASON what so even! THIS IS ALL AT 35,000 miles!! I never drive the damn thing anymore because every time I do the F-ing things breaks down! So look, you wanna see a POS take a look at my 99 Protege ES.. I've has my fair share of problems.. So with every manufacturer there's bound to be problems.. Its sad when my dad's 98 Pontiac with 55,000 miles has not had one single problem! I was anti-domestic for a while too.. Then i realized with the SVT foci I had they really do build some damn nice cars.. And all I've got to say about the guy who that Callaway was gonna make all these upgrades for the MSP.. What about the guy who upgrades the already fast as hell Neon with the parts from PVO that are coming out and such like that?!? You'll be right back where you were.. BEHIND THE NEON and about $4,000 poorer.

Bankie

Settle down. Where are you seeing that Mazda's are crap? No one on this thread has said that. Tires, Oil, and plugs are wear items, no point in blaming Mazda for that.

And you're right, any car can have a problem regardless of brand.

premdrumusr

Yes they are wear items yea tires and oil changes, i know, but how many people do you know of that had the plugs changed by 30,000 miles and then have the cats changed twice by 35,000? I didn't say mazdas were crap but people call american cars crap? so far with my experience.. the 99 i have is nothing but trouble. And I'm not saying the mazdaspeed is crap either. I never put the back windows down anyway so i could care less if they're power.. I could care less about plastic.. plastic is plastic.. seats need to be comfortable, but handling around here? There are no mountain roads, no autox that I know of.. and all my racing is done in 1/4 at Bradenton Motorsports Park so like I said, I care about cornering.. and yea 150mph is a lot.. and yea i won't ever do that but its one of the things that's good to know you have the room if you make the SRT-4 hella fast.. at least you won't lose much in top gear like I did with the 03 pro (when it was stock) and the 99 pro. I mean I have $5,000 easy in my protege and I'm stuck at 14.5 now.. I have an all Pioneer system with MP3 player and two 10's in the trunk.. so stereo doesn't matter in either.. Like someone else said.. this started out as me saying the neon is faster and that I was suprised by the 3rd place finish! But the accolades the SRT-4 is currently getting from various auto mags I read is amazing.. yea they are biased and Consumer Reports sure as hell is.. but I still take into consideration what car and driver has to say along with motor trend and road and track. But I've decided its worth a drive to the Dodge dealer and check these babies out.. So when I do I can better judge on the subject.

Mach 1

30,000 miles is the recommended change interval for spark plugs in most cars that arent using long life platinum plugs. I would say several million people change thier plugs at 30K to answer your question.


So whos dumb *** fault is that? Certainly not Mazdas. Dont try to make a race car out of a protege and you will avoid the inevitble disapointment

And nobody here said all american cars are crap, theres just a few on this thread that think chyrsler makes junk.

You had bad luck with your Mazda, and you like the Neon. So go buy one. Why are you wasting your time here talking about it???

Bankie

There's no reason to resort to flaming.

I don't think he's blaming Mazda. He's saying it's difficult to get a Pro to where he wants it.

And your statement sounds like you're calling every Pro owner on here that's modding his car an idiot.

Why do you have such a problem with people who want to make their cars quick or fast? It's great when people that mod their "slow economy" cars and make them fast. I'd give mad props to someone that made a Metro run 15s or faster.

You've already stated that you don't race. Why are you wasting your time on a thread that's discussing racing and speed?

Mach 1

It seems pretty clear that he is blaming mazda. He says his pro is a problem car and he put 5K in it and its still slow. Well, take it as a lesson learned. I dont know what he spent his 5K on, but sounds like it was on performance mods and he was disapointed.

Anyone who complains about thier car because it needs oil, spark plugs and tires is well deserving of a flame.

I do race, I just dont race my protege, and find it difficult to understand why anyone would, and then complain about how slow it is...well duh...

premdrumusr

look by no means am i blaming mazda because my car is slow.. the problem is, a 14.4 is sad (my best).. i freaking beat MSP's.. I mean why couldn't mazdaspeed just have spent the cash and done a little extra work to get the thing running low 14's also. And my car is mostly stuck at 14.5 now is due to the new system i have in it.. Its not my prob. its slow or mazdas.. yea their not race cars.. but you know.. neither is a neon and look at it. 'nuff said.

Bankie

There's a few reasons that the MSP isn't all that fast.

Mazda is using off-the-shelf parts to try and keep the costs low. I don't think Mazda has a better engine or tranny available in their parts bin that will fit the Pro and handle much more power.

The current Protege chassis is getting ditched soon too. I don't think they want to spend a lot of money when the replacement is right around the corner.

MSP is limited production so (I'm guessing) they won't be making much profit from it anyway.

I would imagine that Mazda has all kinds of trick suspension parts on the shelf. So it's probably easier/cheaper for them to work on a great suspension setup than a whole new drivetrain. Mazda just took a different route than Dodge. And I think they did a damn fine job.