2.0L clod engine rattle - update and possible FIX
November-22nd-2002, 05:41 PM
#1
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
2.0L cold engine rattle - update and possible FIX
One of our members - "bozi" - may have stumbled upon a a fix for the cold engine rattle so many of us experience.
Seems he brought his car to the dealer for brake work, and they "reprogrammed the PCM" while he was there - explaining that the purpose of the reprogramming is to CURE THE COLD ENGINE RATTLE. Supposedly, the 2003 Proteges do not suffer from the VTCS rattle that the 2002's have, and his PCM has now been reprogrammed to 2003 specs, and the rattle fixed.
Since I don't plan on visiting my dealer anytime soon, can anyone confirm or deny this? Did Mazda actually come through with a fix for our noisy cold motors?
I may call just to find out tomorrow - it might do us all some good if some members check out the facts of this, and report back; Does your dealer have info about fixing the rattle? Did you have the service done? Did it eliminate the noise? Stuff like that.
Looks like we *might* finally have a solution to the annoying cold-startup noises!
~HH
Seems he brought his car to the dealer for brake work, and they "reprogrammed the PCM" while he was there - explaining that the purpose of the reprogramming is to CURE THE COLD ENGINE RATTLE. Supposedly, the 2003 Proteges do not suffer from the VTCS rattle that the 2002's have, and his PCM has now been reprogrammed to 2003 specs, and the rattle fixed.
Since I don't plan on visiting my dealer anytime soon, can anyone confirm or deny this? Did Mazda actually come through with a fix for our noisy cold motors?
I may call just to find out tomorrow - it might do us all some good if some members check out the facts of this, and report back; Does your dealer have info about fixing the rattle? Did you have the service done? Did it eliminate the noise? Stuff like that.
Looks like we *might* finally have a solution to the annoying cold-startup noises!
~HH
Last edited by hihoslva; November-23rd-2002 at 01:06 PM.
November-22nd-2002, 06:29 PM
#2
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 41
Just to clarify...
I went to my dealer for a different problem (see noise from rear right wheel post), I also told him that when the engine is warm at around 2000rpm, the instrument panel seems to make a vibration sound. Now I don't know what the delear understood, cause he never fixed that. In fact he told me that what he did fix was a problem which was 'common' to proteges and which was a cold start up rattle. He did mention that the 2003's did not have that problem (I don't know how true that is).
The work order (or invoice if you like) says this
- Traced to internal problem in the PCM
- Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle
I took the car out this afternoon, after it had stood in the cold weather (why is it so bloody cold today in Toronto?), and the rattle seems to have vanished. I probably need to pay attention for a couple of weeks and see if this is indeed a fix.
Hope I shed a little bit of light on this issue....
I went to my dealer for a different problem (see noise from rear right wheel post), I also told him that when the engine is warm at around 2000rpm, the instrument panel seems to make a vibration sound. Now I don't know what the delear understood, cause he never fixed that. In fact he told me that what he did fix was a problem which was 'common' to proteges and which was a cold start up rattle. He did mention that the 2003's did not have that problem (I don't know how true that is).
The work order (or invoice if you like) says this
- Traced to internal problem in the PCM
- Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle
I took the car out this afternoon, after it had stood in the cold weather (why is it so bloody cold today in Toronto?), and the rattle seems to have vanished. I probably need to pay attention for a couple of weeks and see if this is indeed a fix.
Hope I shed a little bit of light on this issue....
November-22nd-2002, 10:29 PM
#3
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto. Canada
Posts: 90
It would seem to (finally) be true. At least one dealer in Toronto has the code, others say are expecting it within 2 weeks (and a few of course still know nothing about anything). You will not see any hoopla about this, as they don't want everyone with a P5 or 2.0L Protege in the shop taking up time/space to get this done. There certainly will be no formal 'recall'....if everyone gets this done it's a huge warranty expense to Mazda . I guess if you have put your name on the notiifcation list at the dealer for this issue, they should call you.
Last edited by frankd; November-22nd-2002 at 10:59 PM.
November-22nd-2002, 11:44 PM
#4
Show Layne some respect
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Originally posted by frankd
You will not see any hoopla about this, as they don't want everyone with a P5 or 2.0L Protege in the shop taking up time/space to get this done. There certainly will be no formal 'recall'....if everyone gets this done it's a huge warranty expense to Mazda . I guess if you have put your name on the notiifcation list at the dealer for this issue, they should call you.
You will not see any hoopla about this, as they don't want everyone with a P5 or 2.0L Protege in the shop taking up time/space to get this done. There certainly will be no formal 'recall'....if everyone gets this done it's a huge warranty expense to Mazda . I guess if you have put your name on the notiifcation list at the dealer for this issue, they should call you.
Go get 'em fellas! I'm hoping my local dealers are not as clueless about this as I expect them to be - we'll see.
~HH
November-26th-2002, 04:49 AM
#5
Who's your Daddy?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Westerville, Ohio USA
Posts: 390
I've got a bit of cold start engine rattle, no matter what they say about the 03 not having this problem. It's not as bad as you 02 owners state yours is, but it's there none the less.
I guess the best way to put it in words is, mine sounds more like a truck for the first few minutes of operation. Is this what the 02 CSR (cold start rattle) sounds like??
I'd like to compare mine to an 02... I'll stop by the dealer to compare (they still have a few 02's on the lot.)
Glad to hear Mazda addressing owners concerns. Unlike Subaru.
Jim
I guess the best way to put it in words is, mine sounds more like a truck for the first few minutes of operation. Is this what the 02 CSR (cold start rattle) sounds like??
I'd like to compare mine to an 02... I'll stop by the dealer to compare (they still have a few 02's on the lot.)
Glad to hear Mazda addressing owners concerns. Unlike Subaru.
Jim
November-26th-2002, 05:03 AM
#7
Who's your Daddy?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Westerville, Ohio USA
Posts: 390
That's the term I was looking for
Originally posted by GSweetZ
yeah.. something like that...i associate it more to having a diesel vehicle.. but it does sound crappy.
yeah.. something like that...i associate it more to having a diesel vehicle.. but it does sound crappy.
I might try disconnecting the VTCS soleniod first, that may eliminate it....
Thanks,
Jim
November-26th-2002, 07:34 AM
#9
Show Layne some respect
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Posts: 2,458
MackDaddy:
The cold rattle is more pronounced if you drive the car before it reaches full operating temperature. I don't hear much out of the ordinary if the car is just idling - maybe a little "diesel" sound, but it really comes alive if you drive away like that - as the engine revs up, there is definitely a pronounced rattle or growling from the engine. Don't know if this is what you experience - but almost all cars will sound a little different before warming up completely, even at idle. The 2.0 issue is definitely not your average cold engine noises - and it generally doesn't matter what the outside temp is; it happens even in warm weather, as the engine itself ramps up to 120 degrees or so (there is a specific cutoff temperature for the VTCS system, I just can't remember what it is).
Distance:
Your rattle might not be the same thing. I don't believe the 1.6 has the VTCS system, or at least not the same one. And for reference, my 93 Miata had a cold rattle also (it was the 1.6 motor), but this was generally accepted to be a function of some heat shielding or something. I don't know about yours, but no matter what the temperature or conditions, my 1.6 rattle would go away completely after 1 or 2 accelerations from a stop. The 2.0 rattle does not act that way.
~HH
The cold rattle is more pronounced if you drive the car before it reaches full operating temperature. I don't hear much out of the ordinary if the car is just idling - maybe a little "diesel" sound, but it really comes alive if you drive away like that - as the engine revs up, there is definitely a pronounced rattle or growling from the engine. Don't know if this is what you experience - but almost all cars will sound a little different before warming up completely, even at idle. The 2.0 issue is definitely not your average cold engine noises - and it generally doesn't matter what the outside temp is; it happens even in warm weather, as the engine itself ramps up to 120 degrees or so (there is a specific cutoff temperature for the VTCS system, I just can't remember what it is).
Distance:
Your rattle might not be the same thing. I don't believe the 1.6 has the VTCS system, or at least not the same one. And for reference, my 93 Miata had a cold rattle also (it was the 1.6 motor), but this was generally accepted to be a function of some heat shielding or something. I don't know about yours, but no matter what the temperature or conditions, my 1.6 rattle would go away completely after 1 or 2 accelerations from a stop. The 2.0 rattle does not act that way.
~HH
November-26th-2002, 07:41 AM
#10
Who's your Daddy?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Westerville, Ohio USA
Posts: 390
Exactly
Originally posted by hihoslva
MackDaddy:
The cold rattle is more pronounced if you drive the car before it reaches full operating temperature. I don't hear much out of the ordinary if the car is just idling - maybe a little "diesel" sound, but it really comes alive if you drive away like that - as the engine revs up, there is definitely a pronounced rattle or growling from the engine. Don't know if this is what you experience - but almost all cars will sound a little different before warming up completely, even at idle. The 2.0 issue is definitely not your average cold engine noises - and it generally doesn't matter what the outside temp is; it happens even in warm weather, as the engine itself ramps up to 120 degrees or so (there is a specific cutoff temperature for the VTCS system, I just can't remember what it is).
~HH
MackDaddy:
The cold rattle is more pronounced if you drive the car before it reaches full operating temperature. I don't hear much out of the ordinary if the car is just idling - maybe a little "diesel" sound, but it really comes alive if you drive away like that - as the engine revs up, there is definitely a pronounced rattle or growling from the engine. Don't know if this is what you experience - but almost all cars will sound a little different before warming up completely, even at idle. The 2.0 issue is definitely not your average cold engine noises - and it generally doesn't matter what the outside temp is; it happens even in warm weather, as the engine itself ramps up to 120 degrees or so (there is a specific cutoff temperature for the VTCS system, I just can't remember what it is).
~HH
Not a problem after the car reaches NOT, but before that, it's a problem I don't like. Seems this problem is not isolated to the 02's, as I've got this exact problem.
Jim
November-26th-2002, 07:51 AM
#11
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Interesting, MackDaddy.
According to "bozi", his dealer *said* they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle.
I don't really know what to say - bozi said he didn't complain about the rattle, and never really paid attention to it before, so he's not 100% sure anything was even fixed.
Anyone call the dealer and ask about this? Surely, at least ONE of our dealers must have some information about whether or not the 2002 VTCS issue has been resolved and a fix sent to the dealers.
~HH
According to "bozi", his dealer *said* they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle.
I don't really know what to say - bozi said he didn't complain about the rattle, and never really paid attention to it before, so he's not 100% sure anything was even fixed.
Anyone call the dealer and ask about this? Surely, at least ONE of our dealers must have some information about whether or not the 2002 VTCS issue has been resolved and a fix sent to the dealers.
~HH
November-26th-2002, 07:58 AM
#12
Who's your Daddy?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Westerville, Ohio USA
Posts: 390
Originally posted by hihoslva
Interesting, MackDaddy.
According to "bozi", his dealer *said* they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle.
~HH
Interesting, MackDaddy.
According to "bozi", his dealer *said* they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle.
~HH
Jim
November-26th-2002, 08:32 AM
#13
P.A.C.T / P.A.APC Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Smyrna, GA
Posts: 269
Interesting info. Mazda customer service actually called me two weeks ago and let me know an updated program was being sent to my delaer to test on an employee car and that I should be able to get the repair in a week or so if it works. Sorta confirms your information.
November-26th-2002, 08:35 AM
#14
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 29
VCTS
Just wonderin how safe it is and what affect is will have in your car to disconnect the VTCS selonoid? Has anyone tried it?? Did it take away that god awful noise??? Also... how exactly do you disconnect it and where is it located. Thanks all!
November-26th-2002, 09:57 AM
#15
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 41
UPDATE
Wassup! I did say that I did'nt pay much attention to the rattle, but what I meant is that I was just used to it since I had it from the second day I had the car (summer time), but nonetheless I was very aware that I had the rattle.
All I can say is that since Friday, I have not experienced it, the car runs really smooth when I don't let the engine warm up, well at least really smooth compared to how it was.
But people don't take my word for it, go ahead and talk to your dealer about it. (remember that my dealer is in Toronto, I don't know if it makes a difference)
By the way, my dealer did not say that "they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle", the guy at the desk who answers phones and knows as much about cars as my 10 year old cousin, told me that the 2003 does not have the same problem. What is in fact written on the invoice is just: "Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle ".
All I can say is that since Friday, I have not experienced it, the car runs really smooth when I don't let the engine warm up, well at least really smooth compared to how it was.
But people don't take my word for it, go ahead and talk to your dealer about it. (remember that my dealer is in Toronto, I don't know if it makes a difference)
By the way, my dealer did not say that "they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle", the guy at the desk who answers phones and knows as much about cars as my 10 year old cousin, told me that the 2003 does not have the same problem. What is in fact written on the invoice is just: "Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle ".