Mister_Eki

Sorry for yet another warranty issue.
Just gimped the P5 wagon into Mazda this morning with a knocking rattle, rough running/stalling engine, and a check engine lamp on.
ONLY mod: CAI.
Mazda thinks I've got a couple valves bent and #4 is misfiring badly.
They're looking to pin it on the CAI(K&N Typhoon)
I've reviewed all the _potential_ claims on the site, but found few that actually beat the dealer without going to court. Now it looks like I'm facing a battle of proofs.
What say ye?
They're going to do a "tear-down" on Thursday($738) to see if they will cover it under warranty.
Do I get that done first, before anything else?

I installed the CAI in January, keeping everything "surgically" clean, and the vehicle just went in to Mazda last month for a 15K check-up and passed clean.
The car ran flawlessly with the CAI since January, and I _NEVER_ adjusted or refitted anything other than inspecting the filter.
Do you think the mechs at Mazda could have messed with the CAI accidentally during the 15K service, causing ingestion of something, in turn the bent valves?
Is that even possible with the carb/injection system we have?

A little freaked at the looming bill.
I just get the feeling that the're looking to off the blame on me/the CAI . . .

Advice?

juddz

...you didn't drive through any standing water with that CAI, did you? If something other than a liquid made its way into the engine, you'll see sharp indentations, debris packed into the valve seats, etc. Then again, if you dropped a valve, you'll see dents, etc on the piston in question anyhow...

I would say that it would be pretty hard for the Mazda folks to mess it up during the 15K service. For one thing, you probably would have suffered this condition driving home from the dealership if it was their fault. Think of how many thousands of rpm's your engine is spinning per minute, and how long it would take debris to get sucked down the port into the combustion chamber. Not long at all...

Mister_Eki

No water was ingested; I even ran the extra sheer-skin on the filter(K&N) as protection when it rained.
I agree that it's unlikely Mazda messed with it, but it's the last time the car was in a shop/engine touched for any purposes.
Nonetheless, I'm sweating it until the prognosis on Thursday.
I'm in the hole for $738 _only to prove whether/not they'll cover it_.
Then the actual billing starts.
That makes me nervous.
I'm going to go and talk to the shop Manager tonight to see if they can ensure it goes warranty. No other idea of what I can do really.
The car only has 16K on it . . . We don't race it either. It's more the commuter/dog-mobile/bike-transporter.
How difficult is it to suck a valve? I have been running the car up in RPMs, but _rarely_ approaching/never over redline.
The car seemed to be hesitating and even running a little rough for about a week before the incident, but I had attributed it to gas.

If I had a job that could pay for it I probably wouldn't care . . .

Roddimus Prime

I would do 2 things. #1 be as nice as possible and don't place blame. #2. GET EVERYTHING IN WRITTING AND HAVE IT SIGNED BY THE SERVICE MANAGER.

Try to rationalize with them that the intake can't cause valve damage. If they claim that the filter let debris into the motor ask them to prove it to you. K&N's are made with surgical paper and an oil layer to trap MORE dirt and debris than a standard paper filter. Those facts may help you.


I hate to say it but everything hinges on how your dealer feels about you. They have the ultimate power.

Da P-Funk!

Take pix too of the 'damage' if any!

Also, the 'bent valves' is only a GUESS until they open it up. Unless they borescoped it of course.

Tow it to another garage right after they finish with it. A second opinion from a reputable mechanic would be the next step if the engine is trashed and they won't cover it. You will need the 'expert evidence' in a court of law...

Just like the insurance company - the First Step in the claim process is DenyDenyDeny, then bargain to 'split' costs (how generous. ) then, if legal action is threatened (and they might lose) THEN (and ONLY then!) would they just pony up the bux to do what they should have done in the first place!

"Why does Mazda want to crap on us like GM does?" I 'thought' the reputation of the Japanese automakers was more important to them...

Da P-Funk!

... oh yeah, and tell K&N - i bet the have a legal department which would support your claim also - it is in THEIR best interest also...

Racing Beat

good point....like was said, be nice, courteous and patient (not a kiss *** though) and just hope for the best....if they say the K&N caused it, then ask them to prove it....

Mister_Eki

Thanks gang. We'll see if they go warranty in two days; I'm losing weight just thinking about it...
I've also been educating myself on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and will get the second opinion from my local garage if needed.
Right now I'm trying to positive vibe myself into a warranty repair job!
The poor P5 only has 16K on the odo.
I hope this doesn't imbalance the engine for good...

I wouldn't be stressing on it but for the fact that the P5 is wifey's commuter.
If we have to rebuild it _off_ warranty, might as well get the WOMP going!

Kicking myself in the *** for not r/r the CAI/OEM airbox before turning the car in...
Trying to be honest may not pay in "warranty"-land.
I understand Mazda's OEM requirement though.
Shouldn't have messed with the intake until off warranty, though, I know there is ZERO possibility of anything getting through the K&N system. It is sealed tight.

Enough speculating.
I'll let you know either way so we can maintain case histories for future ref.

mazdaseniortech

i dont think you have a bent valve.maybe a burned one but you cant bend a valve on thoes engines as thay are not an interfeance type such as honda.you can break a t-belt at 7k rpm and just put a new belt on it.burnt valve will loose compression to that cylnder #4 and run rough.if they say its not covered and you cant get any satisfaction go over the dealers head and ask to talk to the district service rep for mazda corporate.be very nice to him.i have seen him give people the world.trans at 75k miles if they pay labor to install over 10 times personally.at worst he may say free motor or parts to rebuild if you pay labor or all free since so low milage.also call mazda costomer service(numbers in your owners manual)and start a contact that way its over the dealer head untill its settaled by dist serv rep and you are happy.it also help if you bought the car new.good luck to you

FACTORY TUNER

Mazdaseniortech is exactly right. Deal with your dealership in the most proffesional way possible. If they can do nothing for you, Contact your local Mazda District Rep. The service manager is required to give you their number if you want it. Once you get a file rolling on your car, corporate will get it handled. Good luck man!!

juddz

Hey, boss - give us an update when you find out exactly what is wrong, how much of the responsibility Mazda is willing to share, and the course of action that you are going to take to get the problem (mechanical as well as liablility) corrected. I think that experiences such as these are important tools for the rest of us, who very well could be in the same situation at some point. And yes, we're all pulling for you.

DonSVO

this kills me. why are some mazda dealerships being such ******...

a non-interference motor like this wont bend a valve unless something bent it *broken spark plug electrode, foreign matter from outside the motor*. my guess goes with MST that you have a burned valve or two, more than likely exhaust valves. quit running cheap gas!!!

Mister_Eki

Turned out to be fully covered by warranty!
A butterfly valve plate-bolt got sucked into the intake manifold? Something like that...
Anyway, they determined that there wasn't any evidence of me getting in there to mess with things and a week later the wagon was back and zoom-zoom.
Sigh of relief.

Now the cluth is chattering and thunking a bit . . .
Here we go again.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND SUGGESTIONS ON THE INTAKE PROBLEM!

dudeondacouch

the butterfly plates fall apart? sumofbitch!

dangeo

Do you think it has anything to do with a certain twin turbo charged rotary powered supercar that rarely makes it past 80 000 miles on its first engine which Mazda started losing money on in warranty claims and Ford was extremely displeased...? Maybe Mazda still has the fear of FORD in 'em and are tougher than usual.

So its good to hear they did 'fess-up and honor the warranty in this case. Now if I can only get my Insurance to stop jerkin' me around about this hit-and-run damage...