Power esimates?
August-19th-2003, 06:27 PM
#1
ProtegeV
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 181
Power esimates?
What kinda power do you think the following would provide when all added together?
Headers
Headers back exhaust
magnacor wires
new plugs
intake cam
exhaust cam
maybe bigger injectors
light flywheel
lsd
what kinda power gains do you guys estimate?
think it is worth the 2000$~
or do you think its a better idea to just wait it out and pay $4000 for a turbo (im short on funds)
Headers
Headers back exhaust
magnacor wires
new plugs
intake cam
exhaust cam
maybe bigger injectors
light flywheel
lsd
what kinda power gains do you guys estimate?
think it is worth the 2000$~
or do you think its a better idea to just wait it out and pay $4000 for a turbo (im short on funds)
August-19th-2003, 07:54 PM
#4
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 129
NA is just abbreviation for Normally Aspirated... that is, there is no forced induction to produce higher power in your car. Persoanlly i would rather have a 200 hp NA car than a 200 hp TURBO/supercharged car.... thats just me.
Without turbop/supercharging your motor, you are being 'nicer' to it by not being more harsh on the internals... since in NA you are replacing somponents that make the power rather than run them to the max
Without turbop/supercharging your motor, you are being 'nicer' to it by not being more harsh on the internals... since in NA you are replacing somponents that make the power rather than run them to the max
August-19th-2003, 07:58 PM
#5
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 129
August-20th-2003, 12:26 AM
#6
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
A properly built turbocharged engine can be just as reliable as a high strung NA engine...BOTH require careful tuning and planning to be reliable...
In small displacement engines with fixed valvetrains, such as your FS, NA tuning will rarely gain half the torque of FI...so you can gain similar amounts of power to a limit (Not a ton on a FS) but the NA engine will behave completely differently than the same stock engine turbocharged...The torque and compression increases associated with FI is where a lot of the problems can occur...But assuming you raise the compression drastically for a powerful NA engine, it is still a problem there...
Z Me Pro...With the mods you listed I would bet about 20-25hp, sounds shitty I know...Get rid of the idea of bigger injectors, there is no way that with the mods listed that the engine can suck enough air to beg for more fuel...The car runs rich already stock...Also note that only 5 of the listed items will give you slight gains...The header being the biggest, and the flywheel being not so much overall power but the equivelant of shaving a lot of weight in first and second gear...wires and plugs will not do much unless your engine is in dire needs of replacements...and again, forget about the injectors...
Do get the LSD if you can...It will help with launches and cornering and once you learn how to launch those tricky light flywheels you could get decent improvements on 0-X numbers without any other mods...
In small displacement engines with fixed valvetrains, such as your FS, NA tuning will rarely gain half the torque of FI...so you can gain similar amounts of power to a limit (Not a ton on a FS) but the NA engine will behave completely differently than the same stock engine turbocharged...The torque and compression increases associated with FI is where a lot of the problems can occur...But assuming you raise the compression drastically for a powerful NA engine, it is still a problem there...
Z Me Pro...With the mods you listed I would bet about 20-25hp, sounds shitty I know...Get rid of the idea of bigger injectors, there is no way that with the mods listed that the engine can suck enough air to beg for more fuel...The car runs rich already stock...Also note that only 5 of the listed items will give you slight gains...The header being the biggest, and the flywheel being not so much overall power but the equivelant of shaving a lot of weight in first and second gear...wires and plugs will not do much unless your engine is in dire needs of replacements...and again, forget about the injectors...
Do get the LSD if you can...It will help with launches and cornering and once you learn how to launch those tricky light flywheels you could get decent improvements on 0-X numbers without any other mods...
August-20th-2003, 08:42 AM
#7
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 16
I'm wondering how you are going to get all this stuff for 2 grand!!! Isn't a LSD running about 1200 right now??? If there is a cheaper one, please let me know!!! Maybe I'll pick one up.
Now about your question..... I would look at what I wanted to use the car for.
If you're wanting an all-out street racer, going with a turbo and modifying the engine internals is the way to go. Check out www.hiboost.com and look at their turbo. I think it's an awesome setup for the money. However, you MUST, at the very least, change the connecting rods as they are one of the weekest links in our engines. http://www.flyinprotege.com has a link to a manufacturer that makes some pretty good rods.
Now, if you're wanting just a little more power, go with the mods you have listed (but leave out the injectors). Just be careful with the cams. and I think you'll be fine there.
Hope this helps
Now about your question..... I would look at what I wanted to use the car for.
If you're wanting an all-out street racer, going with a turbo and modifying the engine internals is the way to go. Check out www.hiboost.com and look at their turbo. I think it's an awesome setup for the money. However, you MUST, at the very least, change the connecting rods as they are one of the weekest links in our engines. http://www.flyinprotege.com has a link to a manufacturer that makes some pretty good rods.
Now, if you're wanting just a little more power, go with the mods you have listed (but leave out the injectors). Just be careful with the cams. and I think you'll be fine there.
Hope this helps
August-20th-2003, 11:21 AM
#8
Matty's Lead Scrumpet!!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ok City
Posts: 3,143
the power adders will net you about 20-25hp to the wheels (been there, done that)
you will not need bigger injectors (wtf?)
the lsd is EXPENSIVE...please do some searching
a lightened flywheel will help you 'up top' but will kill your low-end because of the lack of rotational mass
thank you, drive through.
karen
you will not need bigger injectors (wtf?)
the lsd is EXPENSIVE...please do some searching
a lightened flywheel will help you 'up top' but will kill your low-end because of the lack of rotational mass
thank you, drive through.
karen
August-20th-2003, 04:55 PM
#10
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Debt, Ca.
Posts: 283
thank you, drive through.
It's most cost effective (power wise) to just go with a turbo system of your choosing. Be warned, LSD or not, the turbo will probably shorten the life of your transmission much, much faster than the NA mods you listed.
August-21st-2003, 12:34 AM
#11
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
Originally posted by Phantom Cruiser
the power adders will net you about 20-25hp to the wheels (been there, done that)
you will not need bigger injectors (wtf?)
the lsd is EXPENSIVE...please do some searching
a lightened flywheel will help you 'up top' but will kill your low-end because of the lack of rotational mass
thank you, drive through.
karen
the power adders will net you about 20-25hp to the wheels (been there, done that)
you will not need bigger injectors (wtf?)
the lsd is EXPENSIVE...please do some searching
a lightened flywheel will help you 'up top' but will kill your low-end because of the lack of rotational mass
thank you, drive through.
karen
And as far as the lightweight flywheel, it won't so much kill lowend just make launching the car more difficult...The lack of rotational mass of the flywheel allows the weight of the car to slow the engine much easier during a launch...The first 20 times you launch a lightweight flywheel equipped car you will probably lug it...
The lighter flywheel helps with throttle response immensely however...The can cause a rough idle and other slight issues, but overall it is a worth while mod IMO...
August-21st-2003, 05:05 PM
#14
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
A number of companies will build custom forged pistons for any application...I think Ross has been making pistons for Mazda KL V6s for a while, and will probably build a custom set for an FS if you have the cash...
Z Me Pro, look at it this way...A FS-ZE with a ~10.4:l compression ratio, ZE cams, ZE intake manifold, and slightly more HP friendly OBD-I ECU makes about 170bhp...So if you do the cams and intake manifold like Ed did (He gained about 10hp with those mods only) you figure your around 140bhp...Theoretically with proper tuning the ZE pistons alone can make up the other 30hp... with more agressive cams, programmable ECU of some sort, and even higher compression pistons you could make even more than that...but the ECU needs to be able to control the rev limiter, with NA you need to rev to get the power...I don't think any of the programmable piggy-backs can do this, so you are stuck with an expensive stand alone...
Z Me Pro, look at it this way...A FS-ZE with a ~10.4:l compression ratio, ZE cams, ZE intake manifold, and slightly more HP friendly OBD-I ECU makes about 170bhp...So if you do the cams and intake manifold like Ed did (He gained about 10hp with those mods only) you figure your around 140bhp...Theoretically with proper tuning the ZE pistons alone can make up the other 30hp... with more agressive cams, programmable ECU of some sort, and even higher compression pistons you could make even more than that...but the ECU needs to be able to control the rev limiter, with NA you need to rev to get the power...I don't think any of the programmable piggy-backs can do this, so you are stuck with an expensive stand alone...
August-26th-2003, 09:37 PM
#15
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 201
It sounds like all that stuff is a pretty good deal at $2000. In comparison, you could probably swap the FS-ZE in for about the same cost (but you would have the LSD- very important in my book).
To answer your question about should you wait to get the turbo system...
Depends on how much power you really want to make, and how reliable do you want your car. The Protege Touring cars (Speed Channel Touring Series) a probably a good example of the maximum power available from the FS-ZE as a naturally aspirated engine. They are said to make about 250 Hp. The engines cost about $20K and last half a year of racing.
You could probably have a streetable, reliable NA motor making about 190-200 Hp.
If thats not enough for you, then I would go with the turbo. I'm not sure of the Engine's capabilities as a turbocharged powerplant, but I'm sure you could get up to 250 Hp for alot less than $20K.
To answer your question about should you wait to get the turbo system...
Depends on how much power you really want to make, and how reliable do you want your car. The Protege Touring cars (Speed Channel Touring Series) a probably a good example of the maximum power available from the FS-ZE as a naturally aspirated engine. They are said to make about 250 Hp. The engines cost about $20K and last half a year of racing.
You could probably have a streetable, reliable NA motor making about 190-200 Hp.
If thats not enough for you, then I would go with the turbo. I'm not sure of the Engine's capabilities as a turbocharged powerplant, but I'm sure you could get up to 250 Hp for alot less than $20K.
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