P2K

This issue has been discussed before and I just wanted to let you all know I'm doing it anyway. I'm buying a brand new FS-DET right from the dealer soon as they become available. I called the local dealer and they told me they're too new for them to have any info on them. I was going to shell out $8K for the KL-ZE swap, but a friend who also owns an import shop suggested otherwise. The engine would weigh the car down too much. He told me my 2000 pro and the MSP are pretty much the same cars and it'll work. I know mounting brackets are an issue. He said he'll make it work. As far as the ECU, he has a friend who's an ECU genius who'll take care of that. Once I break it in, he'll tune it up to 200hp, if it's possible. I think this is the better way to go. So, I figure I should be riding around with my new engine around December if Mazda can produce me one. What do you think?

funkdaddysmack

Do you have the 2.0? There are already a few turbo kits for the 2.0l that provide more torque than the turbo setup on the MSP for under $4k. I'm not sure what's avaliable for the 1.8 if you have one of those. Buying the MSP engine from the dealer is not only a pretty dumb idea, but I don't think they'd sell you the turbo parts without proving that you own a MSP in the first place.

P2K

I once asked for the price for the turbo for the MSP and they did bring up the ownership of one and they said they only did one-for-one exchanges for the turbos. So I decided to buy the whole engine. As for the KL-ZE price, Corksport gave it to me. Go figure.

Well if the 2.0 is the better way to go, I'll just do that and I'll be riding sooner than I think.Thanks for the feedback.

BTW, what's the max HP can I get out of the FS-DE and still be street driveable?

TheMAN

you can buy the engine, but you are NOT going to get the msp's turbo system

tough ****, get an aftermarket turbo

you must love to flush money down the toliet

funkdaddysmack

Well, your problem is going to be the tranny, not the engine. Definately look into getting a performance street clutch to handle the extra torque... I've heard estimates the tranny won't last above 300ft/lbs.

TheMAN

did I mention he'll need a new tranny too?

leungwingkei

8K US$ for an engine? And its used too.

Because of some people saying that only expensive mods are good mods, it produces alot of opputunities for ripping people off.

I disagree on that only expensive mods will do. A tuning shop area does a custom turbo setup for the 2.0L FS-DE for $4000 CAN tax in. Fuel management, and other tuning included. Surely, it won't look as slick as the MSP and the FP turbo, but the power, quality and reliability will be right up there. Too bad I can't spare $4000 now.

funkdaddysmack

Yea, $8k is a bit high... like $7k too high... I saw some jdm site selling a klze with tranny and LSD (limited slip, not drugs fool!) for like $1600 or something.

carguycw

The KL-ZE swap price is probably high because it's not a bolt-in job and AFAIK nobody's ever done it, so they're probably leaving plenty of leeway for other mods that might be required to make everything fit (axles, crossmember, etc.) However, that price is still %^*&@$% outrageous. This idea fails the M3 test: the price of the mods plus the resale value of the car exceeds the price of a good used E36 M3. Why bother?

As other people have already pointed out, there is NO good reason to buy a new FS-DET engine from a dealer. Crate motors are generally sold in long-block form- i.e. no intake and exhaust manifold and no engine accessories, which means NO TURBO SYSTEM. The guts of the FS-DET are the same as the regular FS-DE, and the cars that come with the FS-DE installed are new enough that you shouldn't have any problem finding a good one in a junkyard. Buy one of those and add an MSP #3 motor mount and a Flyin' Miata turbo kit and you're good to go.

P2K

No, no, no, $8K isn't for the engine alone. It's for the parts and labor to pretty much rebuild my entire engine bay, axles, and suspension.

carguycw seems like the only one who understands what I'm talking about. Thank for the POSITIVE feedback. I wasn't going to do it if it wasn't nessessary. I just want the best swap. If I have to buy a tranny, so be it. I just want to know what all I have to do in order to get this done.

And yes TheMan, I like to spend alot of $$$. I do it cause I can, but I'm not rich or anything. When I bought the car I wasn't looking for a high priced car, I was looking for something cheap. Now that I have this, I'm putting every penny into it. What's wrong with that? I waste money everyday.

carguycw

Do you have the 1.8L or the 1.6L?

If you have the 1.8L, the tranny and mounts will bolt up to the 2.0L engine, but whether or not it's a good idea to use your existing tranny is another question. The F25MR tranny in the 99-00 models isn't as strong as the G15MR used in the 2.0L cars and you might turn it into shrapnel if you turbo the car. Of course, if you have the 1.8L you probably don't need the 2.0L swap anyways- the two engines put out about the same amount of power, and you could probably adapt a 2.0L turbo kit onto a 1.8L pretty easily.

If you have the 1.6L, you can reuse your existing tranny if you swap the bellhousing. However, this requires a tranny teardown and rebuild, the final drive ratio isn't as good as the 1.8L or 2.0L tranny, and it's still the same weaker F25 used in the 1.8L, so it really isn't worth it.

The 2.0L tranny is probably the best choice. You will need the axles, shifter linkage and #1, #3 and #4 engine mounts from a 2.0L car. The MSP uses special, stronger axles and a stronger #3 motor mount; the motor mount is quite cheap, but the axles are pretty freakin' pricey (dealer net is ~$275 each, retail will be ~40% higher) and may not be necessary if you don't plan to do any really abusive driving.

Hope this helps!

TheMAN

Wrong, you're the only one who seem to think everyone else doesn't understand "parts and labor". A swap from a shop will cost only 4 grand MAX. That's PARTS AND LABOR. That is unless you're crazy and try to fit a KL-ZE or small block chevy in.
You do it because your parents give you the money to throw away or you do it because you don't know a damn thing and just pay someone to mod your car and get ripped off? Listen son, there's a difference between money well spent on something and money wasted on **** you don't need. What you don't need is a brand new engine. Maybe it's time for you to follow up on what others have done here for good performance at a decent price.

rowan

There are 3 ways out of this bad situation you are planning on getting yourself into.

1 - sell your car and get the 01+ ES with the 2.0L
2 - find a wrecked 2.0L and get all the parts from that
3 - sell your car, buy an older civic and start doing engine swaps that actually get you more power than you start with

TrexPro5

If you are that interested in doing a swap, try making your car RWD. If you can do that then you open your car up to a whole new bag of tricks. Get that done and you are looking a decent swap start. IE: Miata engine etc.

I dont know if you stated what kind of car you drive, but if it is a Protege5 those come in a all wheel drive model in Japan. Meaning there is enough room to fit a driveshaft under there. To be realistic this would be my first goal, since you have money to burn Id go for that. In essence you could turn your car into a Miata, but with a diffrent body. Just a thought!

P2K

Son? Whatever man. I don't need money from my parents. I make my own money unlike yourself buddy.

I'm just trying to do a swap, simple as that. All I wanted to know is which is the best way to go and now I know, son.


1 - I'm keeping my car
2 - An engine out of a wreck is probably screwed in some way
3 - I'm not trading my car in for a civic

But thanks for trying to help.

It's not that I have money to burn, I just get estimates for something and shoot for that goal. If I'm commited enough (which I am), I reach it 9 times out of 10. I'm just doing a swap, changing from FWD to RWD is way too much work and not even worth it, but thanks for the suggestion.

I'm doing the 2.0L swap with either the FM or Tri-point turbo. I should have it in by the end of the year. Hopefully Before September, just in time for NOPI.