Engine Swap
June-21st-2003, 11:38 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Posts: 264
Hey, 230WHP is aprox 300HP to the crank, which is good enough for this box.
If you want more than that from this engine, you will need to go forged with a piggyback or a standalone.
Consider that you will have a lot of wheel spin even with LSD, and that the tranny will most likely fail.
thats about $10,000 to put on this car if you want to have 500hp.
And remember....there is always a bigger fish.
If you want more than that from this engine, you will need to go forged with a piggyback or a standalone.
Consider that you will have a lot of wheel spin even with LSD, and that the tranny will most likely fail.
thats about $10,000 to put on this car if you want to have 500hp.
And remember....there is always a bigger fish.
June-22nd-2003, 12:35 PM
#18
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
You mean the RS? Because it is front wheel drive, and that is the top-end model in the UK, the models carry over to Germany as well. From what I have heard there hasn't been an AWD Focus except for the rally cars, although Cosworth was rumored to be working on one for Europe. That one is not supposed to be available until the next generation is released.
June-22nd-2003, 11:38 PM
#20
formerly chastan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,350
June-23rd-2003, 11:52 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: socal
Posts: 84
There is a company that makes a kit to install a Ford small-block into a Focus. I think they won an award at SEMA for engineering. Seems like SCC mag had picture of one on their last page a while ago. Sucker looked stock. I am not sure about cost, but I don't think it was over 10 grand to complete it with used engine, tranny, and rear end.
June-24th-2003, 10:24 PM
#25
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 133
Turbo'd Mp3 Engine's at best are 230Whp thats great but it could be better
June-25th-2003, 12:03 AM
#26
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
P5sun...I understand that the FS in Roger Foo's P5 is a great attempt at displaying what the engine is capable of...But IMO it does the opposite...One SCCA FS engine similar to one in Roger Foo's car is something like $17,000...The entire powerplant is so far beyond stock it does little display what the engine can do in more or less stock trim, which is little...The SCCA engines will not perform well for street driving, or even on street gas for that matter...FS are not a good starting point for NA, and a number of people have claimed that the most streetable power an NA FS will make "streetable" is about 180whp, with a lot of work...No one has pushed the limits of a forged internal, highly boosted, stand alone ECU FS, so we can't make assumptions on that, but even then the cost would be so high it would not be worth it. Some fire truck came on here and claimed 445hp out of an FS, but his fuel math was as flawed as some of our representative's economic reform plans...in other words he was not making 445hp, and he no longer comes around the board.
Every FS owner needs to face it, the cost to make considerably more power than 210whp is ridiculous...at least to me...but just because an SCCA racing engine makes 225whp NA with a pot of cash and essentially only our block and possibly crank dimensions does not mean that the envolope can be pushed a lot further...
Also Roger Foo no loner drives that car last I heard, he now drives a sedan...And I didn't think Forced Induction was allowed in the class he races in...
Every FS owner needs to face it, the cost to make considerably more power than 210whp is ridiculous...at least to me...but just because an SCCA racing engine makes 225whp NA with a pot of cash and essentially only our block and possibly crank dimensions does not mean that the envolope can be pushed a lot further...
Also Roger Foo no loner drives that car last I heard, he now drives a sedan...And I didn't think Forced Induction was allowed in the class he races in...
June-25th-2003, 12:33 PM
#27
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 133
actually they were lookin at forced induction as announced by a folllow up article to that one. But as was said above that is not in SCCA reg's and therefor would be an application for another race division.
I am not sure about him using a sedan now, as I havent heard that as of late.
Most of the modifications they made had to do with the suspension as they were starting with a new platform and the heads. 120 hours of work is why the engine cost so much not so much for the actuall hardware besides the boring and the intake manifold which is what they pull alot of hp from according to the designers.
They bored the heads to 2.2 I think which is also why it was able to make that much extra power N/A. Changing the bore and stroke is what it is all about and for how much people are dropping on exhaust systems and flywheels and the such they may be better off to save a little longer and get a good bore or port and polish done. Hell the only difference between the celica GT and the celica GT-S engines to make it go from 140 to 180 is the bore and stroke. Thats 40hp alone. Of course they also use VVT-L so it is different across the power band.
And in no way was I saying that this was a street application but honestly if those are the power numbers you are looking for in the first place you are not looking for a street application, lets not let people kid themselves. To sink that much money in a car such as the pro's you better be assuming some form of organized racing or I really dont see the purpose.
Personally I will be perfectly happy getting as close to 200hp as I can over the next year or so(financial restrictions force me to space out buying items)
I am hoping that with my intake, exhaust, pulley, cams, intake manifold, throttle body, headers and eventual 9lb flywheel and other more accesable items that I can gain at least 35-45hp. I mean it has been recognized that someone got 20 pr 22 hp gain from headers, muffler and one other item right? I thought I saw that in another post. ?
I am not sure about him using a sedan now, as I havent heard that as of late.
Most of the modifications they made had to do with the suspension as they were starting with a new platform and the heads. 120 hours of work is why the engine cost so much not so much for the actuall hardware besides the boring and the intake manifold which is what they pull alot of hp from according to the designers.
They bored the heads to 2.2 I think which is also why it was able to make that much extra power N/A. Changing the bore and stroke is what it is all about and for how much people are dropping on exhaust systems and flywheels and the such they may be better off to save a little longer and get a good bore or port and polish done. Hell the only difference between the celica GT and the celica GT-S engines to make it go from 140 to 180 is the bore and stroke. Thats 40hp alone. Of course they also use VVT-L so it is different across the power band.
And in no way was I saying that this was a street application but honestly if those are the power numbers you are looking for in the first place you are not looking for a street application, lets not let people kid themselves. To sink that much money in a car such as the pro's you better be assuming some form of organized racing or I really dont see the purpose.
Personally I will be perfectly happy getting as close to 200hp as I can over the next year or so(financial restrictions force me to space out buying items)
I am hoping that with my intake, exhaust, pulley, cams, intake manifold, throttle body, headers and eventual 9lb flywheel and other more accesable items that I can gain at least 35-45hp. I mean it has been recognized that someone got 20 pr 22 hp gain from headers, muffler and one other item right? I thought I saw that in another post. ?
June-25th-2003, 01:30 PM
#28
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 19
What exactly are you planning to do with your car? Do you want a drag machine? Or do you want an all around performer? In my opion a good quality turbo kit will put you at about 220-230 whp no problem, this is a number I would be very happy with. Now if you want more why don't you just build up another motor, either the US or Japanese version? If you get forged pistons (lower compression), maybe rods, do some head work, fuel supply, bigger turbo. Getting into the 300 whp range is realistic with lower compression forged pistons. The problem I see is with the tranny holding up. Double syncros 1st-3rd gears maybe? I personally think doing a completely different motor is something you should consider in an older car, maybe even getting an older car based on what engine you want to use.
June-25th-2003, 06:35 PM
#29
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 53
Pardon my response as I didn't read everybody elses, just the original one(so if something is restated, sorry).
Pretty much forget about all four of those motors. The rotary WILL NOT fit at all. I mean, it would technically fit, but they dont work well in a FWD config. Engine swaps is our specialty, and honestly, for the protege, going with a v6 from the MX6 or probe and SC is more likely to happen than any one of those motors.
Also, I noticed you said the turbo kit was the same as the price of the engine. However, when doing a swap like you suggested, you would need a standalone EMS to control it, custom tranny mounts, engine mounts, etc...it would cost a lot more then just buying a turbo kit...
Pretty much forget about all four of those motors. The rotary WILL NOT fit at all. I mean, it would technically fit, but they dont work well in a FWD config. Engine swaps is our specialty, and honestly, for the protege, going with a v6 from the MX6 or probe and SC is more likely to happen than any one of those motors.
Also, I noticed you said the turbo kit was the same as the price of the engine. However, when doing a swap like you suggested, you would need a standalone EMS to control it, custom tranny mounts, engine mounts, etc...it would cost a lot more then just buying a turbo kit...
June-26th-2003, 01:06 AM
#30
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
Originally posted by GotHandling?
What exactly are you planning to do with your car? Do you want a drag machine? Or do you want an all around performer? In my opion a good quality turbo kit will put you at about 220-230 whp no problem, this is a number I would be very happy with. Now if you want more why don't you just build up another motor, either the US or Japanese version? If you get forged pistons (lower compression), maybe rods, do some head work, fuel supply, bigger turbo. Getting into the 300 whp range is realistic with lower compression forged pistons. The problem I see is with the tranny holding up. Double syncros 1st-3rd gears maybe? I personally think doing a completely different motor is something you should consider in an older car, maybe even getting an older car based on what engine you want to use.
What exactly are you planning to do with your car? Do you want a drag machine? Or do you want an all around performer? In my opion a good quality turbo kit will put you at about 220-230 whp no problem, this is a number I would be very happy with. Now if you want more why don't you just build up another motor, either the US or Japanese version? If you get forged pistons (lower compression), maybe rods, do some head work, fuel supply, bigger turbo. Getting into the 300 whp range is realistic with lower compression forged pistons. The problem I see is with the tranny holding up. Double syncros 1st-3rd gears maybe? I personally think doing a completely different motor is something you should consider in an older car, maybe even getting an older car based on what engine you want to use.