Dyno: cams, exhaust
April-25th-2002, 10:24 PM
#31
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Where? I don't remember seeing it anywhere before. I should have known you'd find something like it though. I give you plenty of props for completing the FS-ZE swap. Why haven't you gotten the Unichip? It seems like the perfect solution to your ECU issue with the FS-ZE. It can control the the VRIS intake soleniod, remove the rev limiter, and tune the engine for maximum output. What else could you want? 
April-25th-2002, 11:04 PM
#32
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Originally posted by njaremka
very strong indeed! the only thing i don't like about this engine is that the torque drops more than 15 ft-lbs between 4500 rpm and 6000 rpm. (and the redline is at 6500 rpm!) if there was any thing i could change about this engine it would be this: to make the torque stay above 100 ft-lbs. (at the wheels through-out the rev range) if this were the case, the power at the wheels would be close to 120 hp! (not the 105 as seen)
very strong indeed! the only thing i don't like about this engine is that the torque drops more than 15 ft-lbs between 4500 rpm and 6000 rpm. (and the redline is at 6500 rpm!) if there was any thing i could change about this engine it would be this: to make the torque stay above 100 ft-lbs. (at the wheels through-out the rev range) if this were the case, the power at the wheels would be close to 120 hp! (not the 105 as seen)
As for the price, they checked with Dastek and yes it's $595 to me. I don't know what they pay. It will take about an hour of dyno time to set it up at $120/hr for tuning. It's $75 to run it 3 times with minor changes, and $120/hr if they are tuning and tweaking it themselves. They're pretty sure that it will only take about an hour of tuning and about an hour of installation at $55/hr. So I'd be looking at about a $800 bill by the time it's done. The MP3 comp is about a $1000 and doesn't offer any kind of tuning possibilities so this looks to be the cheapest route. You can use one of the outputs to run an additional injector so it won't be obsolete if I go the turbo or supercharger route later on.
April-26th-2002, 07:04 AM
#34
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Originally posted by Traveler
That's a pretty good plot! Torque will always decrease after 5252 RPM on any engine. In order to keep it over 100 Lb/ft at 6000 it would have to be making about 130 at peak.
That's a pretty good plot! Torque will always decrease after 5252 RPM on any engine. In order to keep it over 100 Lb/ft at 6000 it would have to be making about 130 at peak.
Originally posted by Traveler
The best way to accomplish this is of course forced induction! A supercharger would keep it over 150 through the entire rev range probably!
The best way to accomplish this is of course forced induction! A supercharger would keep it over 150 through the entire rev range probably!
April-26th-2002, 03:12 PM
#35
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Why do you say that? Not all engines are the same, so what is magical about 5252 RPM? Did you all read my post with the quote from Dastek about dynos? Very interesting reading about the different types of dynos, and the validity of the numbers you get from them. Also an excellent explaination of the diffence between HP and torque. Recommending reading. Dispells many common misconceptions about dyno curves, and HP and torque relationships.
Originally posted by Traveler
That's a pretty good plot! Torque will always decrease after 5252 RPM on any engine.
That's a pretty good plot! Torque will always decrease after 5252 RPM on any engine.
April-26th-2002, 03:27 PM
#37
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ah, the eternal question about torque and horsepower
this page does a really good job explaining the relationship between the 2 mathematically, you'll see why 5252 is the magic number:
http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer...orsepower.html
http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer...orsepower.html
April-26th-2002, 05:00 PM
#39
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Just found out the exhaust cam won't ship until Monday. Found out they had a 'Sport 20 Familia' emblem in stock so I had them roll that into the order also. I figured it was only another $7.20.
April-27th-2002, 11:04 AM
#40
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Originally posted by Eric F
Where? I don't remember seeing it anywhere before. I should have known you'd find something like it though. I give you plenty of props for completing the FS-ZE swap. Why haven't you gotten the Unichip? It seems like the perfect solution to your ECU issue with the FS-ZE. It can control the the VRIS intake soleniod, remove the rev limiter, and tune the engine for maximum output. What else could you want?
Where? I don't remember seeing it anywhere before. I should have known you'd find something like it though. I give you plenty of props for completing the FS-ZE swap. Why haven't you gotten the Unichip? It seems like the perfect solution to your ECU issue with the FS-ZE. It can control the the VRIS intake soleniod, remove the rev limiter, and tune the engine for maximum output. What else could you want?
Anyway, I was just giving you a hard time. I found out about unichip on the net. I read about a few hyundai tiburons that had one. Then I saw that tons of cars were using it. Some completely stock MR2 spyders (the new ones) were gaining 7whp, which sold me on the tuning ability. My local shop (Altered Atmosphere) just put one on a C70 Volvo.
As soon as I can get some headers, I'm going to have the headers, exhaust cam, and unichip installed all at once. The headers are delaying the whole process. I can't wait to post a dyno sheet!
I'm interested to know how to control the VICS system. I know the unichip can do it but, don't know how to input data into the solenoid. Anyone know anything about this?
April-27th-2002, 04:34 PM
#41
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I believe you, it was just the first I remember hearing of it. Unlike Jesse, I can't get to every post on the Forum. 
After reading this months SCC issue, I'm concerned about when the Mazda ECU goes into open loop mode though. Since the Unichip only excepts two inputs, RPM and throttle position/load, the stock ECU may be able to undue any tuning attempts in closed loop mode. The VICS system is controlled by an electrical signal generated from the ECU at a specific RPM. That signal triggers a soleniod which opens a valve that lets vacuum open the throttle plates in the secondary runners in the intake manifold. The Unichip can intercept the original ECU signal, and generate it's own at a programmable RPM point.
After reading this months SCC issue, I'm concerned about when the Mazda ECU goes into open loop mode though. Since the Unichip only excepts two inputs, RPM and throttle position/load, the stock ECU may be able to undue any tuning attempts in closed loop mode. The VICS system is controlled by an electrical signal generated from the ECU at a specific RPM. That signal triggers a soleniod which opens a valve that lets vacuum open the throttle plates in the secondary runners in the intake manifold. The Unichip can intercept the original ECU signal, and generate it's own at a programmable RPM point.
Originally posted by eeterp
I swear I've mentioned the unichip before. Can't seem to find it using 'search' however. Anyway, I was just giving you a hard time.
I found out about unichip on the net. I read about a few hyundai tiburons that had one. Then I saw that tons of cars were using it. Some completely stock MR2 spyders (the new ones) were gaining 7whp, which sold me on the tuning ability. My local shop (Altered Atmosphere) just put one on a C70 Volvo.
As soon as I can get some headers, I'm going to have the headers, exhaust cam, and unichip installed all at once. The headers are delaying the whole process. I can't wait to post a dyno sheet!
I'm interested to know how to control the VICS system. I know the unichip can do it but, don't know how to input data into the solenoid. Anyone know anything about this?
I swear I've mentioned the unichip before. Can't seem to find it using 'search' however.
Anyway, I was just giving you a hard time. I found out about unichip on the net. I read about a few hyundai tiburons that had one. Then I saw that tons of cars were using it. Some completely stock MR2 spyders (the new ones) were gaining 7whp, which sold me on the tuning ability. My local shop (Altered Atmosphere) just put one on a C70 Volvo.
As soon as I can get some headers, I'm going to have the headers, exhaust cam, and unichip installed all at once. The headers are delaying the whole process. I can't wait to post a dyno sheet!
I'm interested to know how to control the VICS system. I know the unichip can do it but, don't know how to input data into the solenoid. Anyone know anything about this?
April-27th-2002, 04:51 PM
#42
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Yes, 5252 RPM is where HP and torque intesect on a graph. HP is always lower than torque below that RPM, and higher than torque above that RPM. That's not the same as Torque always declines after 5252 rpm. Good link though, thanks.
Jesse, did you go to the site I posted and read the rest of the inforamation about dynos? The premise was that torque as measured at the wheels by a loading dynomometer isn't accurate because of driveline losses. It's explained better here:
http://www.dastek.co.za/ click on 'Dastek Dynomometers' and 'Introduction to Dynomometers'.
Jesse, did you go to the site I posted and read the rest of the inforamation about dynos? The premise was that torque as measured at the wheels by a loading dynomometer isn't accurate because of driveline losses. It's explained better here:
http://www.dastek.co.za/ click on 'Dastek Dynomometers' and 'Introduction to Dynomometers'.
Originally posted by Traveler
Thanks ZoomZoom. That answer your question Eric?
Thanks ZoomZoom. That answer your question Eric?
April-27th-2002, 09:58 PM
#43
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Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Traveler, torque doesnt always fall after 5252rpm, it simply will be LESS than hp at the same rpm. I included a dyno chart to show this.
From Eric's post....."If we take two similar cars with only slightly different profile tyres and run them on a chassis dynamometer we should see that the power is very similar whilst the torque will be radically different."
This is just WRONG
Torque and Hp is mathmatically related by the formula already given in this thread. Therefore, you cannot change one and not have it affect the other. Therefore, if you have 2 engines with 85hp at 3000 rpm, they will BOTH have X lb-ft of torque at 3000rpm, no matter what. Its simply a defiinition.
Traveler, torque doesnt always fall after 5252rpm, it simply will be LESS than hp at the same rpm. I included a dyno chart to show this.
From Eric's post....."If we take two similar cars with only slightly different profile tyres and run them on a chassis dynamometer we should see that the power is very similar whilst the torque will be radically different."
This is just WRONG
Torque and Hp is mathmatically related by the formula already given in this thread. Therefore, you cannot change one and not have it affect the other. Therefore, if you have 2 engines with 85hp at 3000 rpm, they will BOTH have X lb-ft of torque at 3000rpm, no matter what. Its simply a defiinition.
April-28th-2002, 07:53 PM
#45
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I thought horspower was derived from the torque readings that a dyno meter measured. Then the computer attached to then dyno simply plotted the curve for the torque and the numbers it derives from the equation for horsepower and plotted that.
Then again, I've had a bad day and I might be wrong.
Then again, I've had a bad day and I might be wrong.