boostedmp5

I've been trying to get more power out of my FS-DE with 11.9.1 compression,FS-ZE intake cam and MMS exhaust cam. I'm getting about 180Hp maybe more, out of my motor the way the haltechE6K is tuned now.The technician who tunes my haltech says i will not be able to get anymore power out of my motor(I think hes full of ****) unless i get rid of the direct fire ignition and go with a distributer allowing me to run thicker millimeter wires for better spark. He also recommended getting my head port and polished, a good header, better fuel injectors better fuel pump and getting some adjustable cam gears, to let the head breath properly. He claims once all this is done my motor will be able to put out well over 200Hp. My head is completely stock except for the cams I have a full 2.25 straight exhaust from the stock exhaust manifold to the muffler no cats. Injen CAI. What do you guys think and also would i be able to use a distributer from a FS powered probe. I also noticed in the new SCC roger foos motor is using a distributer. Whats up with that

chdesign

Roger Foos' car does not use a disty. He is using the coil packs from the 99-00 Protege as they do create a better spark than the smaller ones on the 01+ proteges. YOu also will not make more power with a Disty you will make less they cannot be tuned as well as the DIS systems. Your "guy" is probably used to disty's and think that is the only way to go but if you look at all the high end stand alones aka- motec TEC-3 they use DIS systems not distys. I'm surprised your motor has lasted this long with 11.9:1 compression are you running race gas all teh time. If not that is probably your bottleneck if you have a knock sensor installed with the Haltech. If you are running 93 with that high of compression teh Haltech is probably retarding your timing quite a bit from the knock sensor cause at that high of compression you should be running at least 100 octane at the least. I'm goign to run 93 with my 10.7:1 and thats still too low I need 95 really to get the full power out of them. Also if you went with a Disty you would have to ditch the Mazdaspeed exhaust cam as it doesn't have the gear to turn the disty on the end. thats just my .02

chdesign

Jesse I as just saying to get the full potential out of those pistons he would need a high octane gas to get full advance that he could. And the MSD box aka DIS-2 will not work with the Proteges ignition system I have contacted MSD several times about it.

carguycw

I'm not an expert on aftermarket EFI, but I think that the best way to go is to use the coils from a 99, like Foo's car. This should make it MUCH easier to use aftermarket coils and wires. The Haltech SHOULD be able to use this setup, since many, many modern performance imports (such as Miatas) use basically the same system.

I'm guessing that the reason your tuner wants to use a distributor is because he's familiar with them. However, there's a reason why so many cars now use coil packs- they're smaller, simpler, and MUCH more flexible when used in conjunction with modern computer controls (like a Haltech). They also make more power than a distributor because the multiple coils allow more coil saturation (i.e. more time to charge the coils between spark plug firings). Using a distributor will be a step backwards.

I also suspect that attaching a distributor to this engine will be a bear. I'm not familiar with the MX-6/Probe ignition, but most modern imports use a distributor that mounts to the cylinder head and is driven by one of the cams. If this is the case, you will have to modify the head and/or valve cover to mount the disty (or use an MX-6/Probe head), and the Protege cams may not have provisions to drive it, so you may have to change the cams too.

Also, to address another couple of things that have come up in this thread:
1) You can run more compression with longer-duration aftermarket cams because the cam overlap bleeds off some compression at TDC of the intake stroke.
2) I suspect that you CAN use an MSD with the Pro ignition system, but you may have to used 2 boxes because the system essentially works like 2 seperate 2-cylinder engines.

FWIW

carguycw

I suspect the answers would be:

1) Yes, but it is probably not a "bolt-on." Minor fabrication, wiring and possibly custom spark plug wires will be required.
2) Yes, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it will make ANY power unless you have modified something on the engine that will increase cylinder pressure (i.e. forced induction, or 11.x:1 compression like boostedmp5).

boostedmp5

Thanks for the info carguycw,chdesign,Psuedo. Im going to get the head ported and polished this week, as a matter of fact i already have the head off the block. I,m going to leave the DIS and try to run a MSD 6AL once the head is torqued back on. I,ve been told this will work with 3rd gens not sure though. I'm also going to throw my buddy 200$ at the muffler shop to fabricate me a 4 into 1 header using the stock manifold flange but were going to wait untill i get the head back so we can match the diameters of the flange and the head for smooth flow. Now that i have the head apart what other little things would you recommend such as valve springs, reshaping, anything, nows the time since its apart. Hey when we took the head off i noticed the cylinder walls and the top of the pistons were very clean almost new looking the only real bad build up was on the valves and in the head. My car runs very rich since i cant get my hands on racing fuel to feed such high compression and my NGK plugs are shot. I have 30,000 miles on my p5 13,000 with the new pistons and cams. I think the mobil 1 oil i use has alot to do with the motor being so clean inside.Good stuff

zeus

Jesse, the only way to change a motor’s stroke is to change the crankshaft. Since the crank moves the pistons up and down, and the amount of up and down is the stroke, it stands to reason that stroke is determined only by rod journal off set from the main journals. Rod length can only alter compression, and the not so important rod ratio. The length of the rod can’t change the stroke, and rod ratio is only a consideration if you’re significantly raising the rev limit. This is because the ratio has such a profound effect on piston acceleration and peak velocity. If a high rev motor is the goal, I’d advise putting a serious effort into a new rod and piston combo that matches C/R and rod ratio to the desired rev ceiling or more accurately, piston velocity. Of course this may require a shorter stroke crank, which means de-stroking the motor, but this is common in all out race motors, where a trade in displacement for revs is favorable. As is, I would not push more than 8k on the stock bottom end.

Boostedmp5, are you really running boost at 11.9:1?

Normally the ignition will only be rev limiting, not power limiting. But 11.9:1 and boost sure ain’t normal, so your tuner has his hands full. High spark energy is very helpful in getting a rapid burn at high revs and is actually necessary under great chamber pressure like you must have. Also spark timing control becomes much more important as revs, or as in your case, compression pressures increase. With the massive compression pressure your chamber is seeing, a hotter spark is definitely in order. I’ve always wanted to put a hot set of motorcycle coil-overs on a tuned import just to see how well it would work. Yamaha YZF coils look like they’d fit the bill too. Forget about the dis, your tuner must be brain damaged if he wants you to put a dis on your motor. The added inertia on the cam is reason enough to forget it. Look for a coil pack with output above 45kv. I assume the Haltech can support 4 independent coils, so you should nix the twin fire config in there now to help reduce chamber temps.

As far as octane goes, the lower you can safely use the better. There is no reason that a high compression motor needs race gas if it is properly tuned, but at 11.9:1 and boost damn who knows. There is a balance between power output, spark advance and octane, but IMO it is best to set spark control at a level that allows for 89 at the max for the street. Racing or crazy high compression boosted motors are another story entirely. You may want to consider a water injection system to control detonation under boost. I've never seen it used on an import myself but have had success with them on big blocks.

One more thing, don’t try to use the stock manifold flange to build a header onto. Anyone that thinks they can weld tube to cast iron isn’t a welder; they’re a fool.

boostedmp5

Hey zeus My motor is naturally aspirated i'm not running turbo dude.I have 11.9.1 compression pistons. Dont let the boostedmp5 name fool you. I'm trying to make an all motor beast. Turbos are too much trouble and maintenance. Thanks for the info .

chdesign

The 3rd gen Protege sends a dirty signal to the stock coils that cannot be decifered by the MSD units. NONE of the MSD products to control ignition will work with the DIS proteges not even the 6AL. IF you want ignition control you are going to have to go stand alone or with a Link system.

lupus

since you have the head off, just get 1mm oversized valves and a radious valve job, and also port out the intake mani. this will all help with flow. might as well get it all done at once while oyu have the head. get a metal head gasket and raise the comp. some more. cause compression is basically free boost. the more the merrier. my N/A eclipse was running 12.5:1 and all that head work plus bolt ons(cams, and all that other junk) and i was putting 235fwhp. it was a fast ride plus it suprised the **** out of people