To Boost or not to Boost!
October-20th-2005, 02:56 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Reno, Nv.
Posts: 231
To Boost or not to Boost!
Ok guys,
I am sorta confused here. I have a 3rd gen 2.0 L AUTOMATIC. Now, I have heard that our engines are pretty good with boost, and I have also heard that my auto tranny is lowsy with any sort of high horsepower and torque. So, I have heard that Supercharging my car with an auto tranny is a disaster waiting to happen, but I talked to a guy at Forced Induction Here in Reno (pretty reputable from what I've heard) and he told me that they could turbo my car and run around 8 to 10 lbs of boost and my engine and tranny would be just fine at stock. He explained that Supercharging would probably not be good because it creates more lower end torque whereas a turbo doesn't. Low end torque, apparently, would be what did my tranny in. The way he explained it, I could turbo my car with an auto tranny with about 8 lbs of boost and be pretty damn fast cuz I wouldn't lose as much boost while shifting as opposed to a manual, all while retaining my car's daily drivabilty and reliability. So, what do you guys think, would my tranny hold up? Would the HP gain be worth the money (around $4k according to him)? Most importantly, WOULD MY CAR HOLD UP TO IT?!
I am sorta confused here. I have a 3rd gen 2.0 L AUTOMATIC. Now, I have heard that our engines are pretty good with boost, and I have also heard that my auto tranny is lowsy with any sort of high horsepower and torque. So, I have heard that Supercharging my car with an auto tranny is a disaster waiting to happen, but I talked to a guy at Forced Induction Here in Reno (pretty reputable from what I've heard) and he told me that they could turbo my car and run around 8 to 10 lbs of boost and my engine and tranny would be just fine at stock. He explained that Supercharging would probably not be good because it creates more lower end torque whereas a turbo doesn't. Low end torque, apparently, would be what did my tranny in. The way he explained it, I could turbo my car with an auto tranny with about 8 lbs of boost and be pretty damn fast cuz I wouldn't lose as much boost while shifting as opposed to a manual, all while retaining my car's daily drivabilty and reliability. So, what do you guys think, would my tranny hold up? Would the HP gain be worth the money (around $4k according to him)? Most importantly, WOULD MY CAR HOLD UP TO IT?!
Last edited by Buck; October-20th-2005 at 03:01 PM.
October-20th-2005, 03:41 PM
#3
Moderator/ Pocket Tuner
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,150
Wow....I don't think I have enough room, So' I'll be brief
A s/c builds power more gradually, and doesn't slam the power into the tranny like turbo lag does.....so actually a s/c would be better for an auto
As far as the other question...the auto MIGHT hold up to 8lbs....why not go to lentech to get a built tranny so its not a worry ?
A s/c builds power more gradually, and doesn't slam the power into the tranny like turbo lag does.....so actually a s/c would be better for an auto
As far as the other question...the auto MIGHT hold up to 8lbs....why not go to lentech to get a built tranny so its not a worry ?
Last edited by macdaddyslomo; October-20th-2005 at 03:59 PM.
October-20th-2005, 04:03 PM
#4
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
actually what I was trying to get across was that torque delivery from a SC is dependent on what type of SC you're using.
a Roots style blower adds a lot of torque instantly.
the womp does not. 13bhp per psi but only 5lb-ft.
besdies no'one makes a protege SC unless you want that one from Taiwan thats like $4500+ for 172whp.
a Roots style blower adds a lot of torque instantly.
the womp does not. 13bhp per psi but only 5lb-ft.
besdies no'one makes a protege SC unless you want that one from Taiwan thats like $4500+ for 172whp.
October-20th-2005, 11:17 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 778
Theoreticly could a s/c be worse on a tranny then a turbo.
I was thinking with the s/c alot of power is applied between shifts this would cause the tranny to slip which would ultametly cause it to overheat and kill it.
The turbo however would make more power higher up in the rpm's esp if you get a nice big turbo. This could save a tranny by giving it time to preperly engage each gear.
The womp seems to be where its at though, if only we had one for the 1.6l
I was thinking with the s/c alot of power is applied between shifts this would cause the tranny to slip which would ultametly cause it to overheat and kill it.
The turbo however would make more power higher up in the rpm's esp if you get a nice big turbo. This could save a tranny by giving it time to preperly engage each gear.
The womp seems to be where its at though, if only we had one for the 1.6l
October-21st-2005, 09:10 AM
#8
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
Originally Posted by Roddimus Prime
actually what I was trying to get across was that torque delivery from a SC is dependent on what type of SC you're using.
a Roots style blower adds a lot of torque instantly.
a Roots style blower adds a lot of torque instantly.
again.....
October-21st-2005, 10:53 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Reno, Nv.
Posts: 231
Actually Zero that is pretty much what the guy at forced induction told me, and the way he and you explained it makes sense, and this guy supposedly knows his ****. The sc causing the tranny to slip is also something I have heard from other people. A guy with an auto 3rd gen with tiptronic said he installed a sc and it caused his auto to start slipping even when he used the tiptronic and manually shifted. I think it makes sense.? But then again I used to be a truck guy, so boost wasn't really my main concern, therefore I don't know a whole lot about it and how it effects the engine. I have heard Nitrous if used wisely can be a good bang for the buck, but I don' think I wanna go that route.
October-21st-2005, 10:59 PM
#11
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
whoever your friend is...he's lying. I didn't want to come into this thread because I knew this would happen....
I've built one of the only supercharged 3rd gen proteges in the country. The only other one that anyone in the mazda community knows about was a one-off show car for Wings West and it was a 5spd MP3 model.
The shop you're talking with doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to SC's. Besides I'm the only person here that makes a Supercharger kit for the proteges. Whos advice are you going to listen to?
Just for reference you tell me which one you think would be worse on a automatic car..
175whp 150lb-ft Supercharger
180whp 180lb-ft turbocharger
If I have to get into power delivery tech. I will but lets just say that small turbos can reach full boost (and torque) by 2500rpms where as my supercharger reaches maximum power at redline...like an NA car.
Look at my dyno graphs if you want proof...then go look at a turbo cars.
God, I hate getting into these discussion because I feel like I'm making a sales pitch or being pushy but these facts are WAY off.
I've built one of the only supercharged 3rd gen proteges in the country. The only other one that anyone in the mazda community knows about was a one-off show car for Wings West and it was a 5spd MP3 model.
The shop you're talking with doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to SC's. Besides I'm the only person here that makes a Supercharger kit for the proteges. Whos advice are you going to listen to?
Just for reference you tell me which one you think would be worse on a automatic car..
175whp 150lb-ft Supercharger
180whp 180lb-ft turbocharger
If I have to get into power delivery tech. I will but lets just say that small turbos can reach full boost (and torque) by 2500rpms where as my supercharger reaches maximum power at redline...like an NA car.
Look at my dyno graphs if you want proof...then go look at a turbo cars.
God, I hate getting into these discussion because I feel like I'm making a sales pitch or being pushy but these facts are WAY off.
October-21st-2005, 11:12 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 778
Dam Rod did I ever mention what a dam beautiful kit you've put together!
Just be sure to let of the gas between shifts that should pretty much save the tranny. Just gotta find a way to have the car pull crazy timing between shifts, hmm should be possible, and would make it idiot proof.
Just be sure to let of the gas between shifts that should pretty much save the tranny. Just gotta find a way to have the car pull crazy timing between shifts, hmm should be possible, and would make it idiot proof.
October-21st-2005, 11:22 PM
#13
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
why pull timing? why let off? If you have proper line pressure and fluid temp you shouldn't have to do any of that. Pulling timing is NOT an issue on something like this. You pull timing when you can't control detonation. The easiest way to control detonation is to remove charge heat. The easiest way to do that is to use an efficient blower NOT attached to the exhaust manifold with hot engine oil running through it.
thanks for the comments on the kit....that's the old design. I've re-tooled everything from the ground up and it'll look similar but much cleaner with a slightly more efficient blower..expect to see about 10% more power than the last dyno on the same size pulley (about 4.5-5psi)...so figure about 175whp for 5psi not bad IMO.
thanks for the comments on the kit....that's the old design. I've re-tooled everything from the ground up and it'll look similar but much cleaner with a slightly more efficient blower..expect to see about 10% more power than the last dyno on the same size pulley (about 4.5-5psi)...so figure about 175whp for 5psi not bad IMO.
