AWR Header available!
May-4th-2003, 09:26 PM
#1
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Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
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AWR Header available!
I just found out that Protege5online has headers available. He says they are SS, have the egr port and 2 o2 bungs.
Ok, so WOW, I'm all ready to buy.. BUT..........
I dont understand the whole last year of hassles with the CEL light. Mitch from p5online says the 1st cat is nothing but a prewarming cat and there will be no troubles with the CEL light going on. From what I got from everyone is that the cel light would go off, since the readings from both o2 sensors would be the same and show the 1st cat was not working. But then again, I dont remember anyone actually installing a header, since there has not been any available.
What to believe..
a.r.
Ok, so WOW, I'm all ready to buy.. BUT..........
I dont understand the whole last year of hassles with the CEL light. Mitch from p5online says the 1st cat is nothing but a prewarming cat and there will be no troubles with the CEL light going on. From what I got from everyone is that the cel light would go off, since the readings from both o2 sensors would be the same and show the 1st cat was not working. But then again, I dont remember anyone actually installing a header, since there has not been any available.
What to believe..
a.r.
May-5th-2003, 12:17 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 328
I know I saw the email the Mitch wrote about the o2 sensor thing, but I cannot find it now. Could you provide a link to that thread? I'm thinking about going with this header and getting a procharger supercharger. What do you think?
May-6th-2003, 11:47 AM
#7
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 128
No, they said they came up with some crazy looking thing that Mazda would've never approved anyhow. Besides, even Traveler's shorty header that retains the cat showed dyno proven gains.
In this case, I wouldn't take RBs word.
Chris
In this case, I wouldn't take RBs word.
Chris
May-6th-2003, 12:51 PM
#8
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 328
I beleive the one RB designed, looped around the radiator hose, or something like that. They were trying to fit a (traditional length) long header, and the only way to get that much pipe under there was to loop it around the radiator hose.
May-6th-2003, 03:39 PM
#9
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Location: Merritt Island Fl
Posts: 151
FYI - The first cat is the primary cat as far as the OBDII is concerned. The second sensor looks at the exhaust after the first cat to check and see that it is doing it's job. The second cat is only polishing cat that helps obtain the ULE rating.
Basically the second sensor inputs the same DC bias to the ECU as the first sensor, but if the cat is working it will lack the AC signal riding the bias of the first. This indicates to the ECU that the exhaust gas coming out of the cat doesn't have mix osilations like the raw exhaust stream. In electrical terms the ECU compares the two signals and counts the signal bias crossings.
There are several ways to fix the second sensor problem. You can scab it's wires onto the first sensor with a isolating filter, you can install it after a cat like it's suposed to be, or you can feed it back on it's self with a MIL Eliminator. The simple and very cheap eliminator is best.
Here's what I heard on the pipe. The problem with the earlier AWR header is that it came too close to the lower water hose and didn't line up with the EGR tube. The new pipe is made for the G3 and is suposed to correct those problems. I'll let you know when mine comes in.
In AWR's defence you have to realize they're in the business of building race cars not after market street parts. Without a support contract you're always on the hind tit.
Basically the second sensor inputs the same DC bias to the ECU as the first sensor, but if the cat is working it will lack the AC signal riding the bias of the first. This indicates to the ECU that the exhaust gas coming out of the cat doesn't have mix osilations like the raw exhaust stream. In electrical terms the ECU compares the two signals and counts the signal bias crossings.
There are several ways to fix the second sensor problem. You can scab it's wires onto the first sensor with a isolating filter, you can install it after a cat like it's suposed to be, or you can feed it back on it's self with a MIL Eliminator. The simple and very cheap eliminator is best.
Here's what I heard on the pipe. The problem with the earlier AWR header is that it came too close to the lower water hose and didn't line up with the EGR tube. The new pipe is made for the G3 and is suposed to correct those problems. I'll let you know when mine comes in.
In AWR's defence you have to realize they're in the business of building race cars not after market street parts. Without a support contract you're always on the hind tit.
May-6th-2003, 08:17 PM
#10
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Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
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Originally posted by zeus
There are several ways to fix the second sensor problem. You can scab it's wires onto the first sensor with a isolating filter, you can install it after a cat like it's suposed to be, or you can feed it back on it's self with a MIL Eliminator. The simple and very cheap eliminator is best.
There are several ways to fix the second sensor problem. You can scab it's wires onto the first sensor with a isolating filter, you can install it after a cat like it's suposed to be, or you can feed it back on it's self with a MIL Eliminator. The simple and very cheap eliminator is best.
Mitch from p5online says that awr told him that they did not get the CEL light in AWR's test vechicles.
I am still going to plan for the worst....
Which Eliminator are you planning to buy (or would you buy).
May-7th-2003, 02:48 PM
#12
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Location: Merritt Island Fl
Posts: 151
I can't believe that dropping the primary cat won't throw a CEL without some kind of cheat. Every OBDII vehicle I've ever seen without a primary cat will set a light unless it's cheated. In order to meet EPA standards it has to be pretty sensitive to cat failure, and elimination is as much of a failure as you can get.
Some pipe manufacturers provide eliminators with their pipes where necessary, others just provide instructions. But they won't get a CARB EO. All it takes is a ~1 Meg-ohm, 1/4 watt resistor and a ~1 micro-F capacitor. You can get those at Radio Shack for under a buck. In some cases it requires a little more filter ballancing, but those two 10 cent parts will be very close. The cap goes in line to line with the sensor wires, the resistor goes in series with the return, normally the blue, on the sensor side of the cap.
To be sure, take a before reading with a multimeter in both ac and dc ranges. If it doesn't work afterwards take the same readings again and adjust the circuit accordingly.
There is another fix, open the dash and disconnect the light. I've done that too and it's a sure fire fix.
Some pipe manufacturers provide eliminators with their pipes where necessary, others just provide instructions. But they won't get a CARB EO. All it takes is a ~1 Meg-ohm, 1/4 watt resistor and a ~1 micro-F capacitor. You can get those at Radio Shack for under a buck. In some cases it requires a little more filter ballancing, but those two 10 cent parts will be very close. The cap goes in line to line with the sensor wires, the resistor goes in series with the return, normally the blue, on the sensor side of the cap.
To be sure, take a before reading with a multimeter in both ac and dc ranges. If it doesn't work afterwards take the same readings again and adjust the circuit accordingly.
There is another fix, open the dash and disconnect the light. I've done that too and it's a sure fire fix.
May-7th-2003, 09:32 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Midland,TX
Posts: 3
I got my AWR header in the beginning of April.It took 3 weeks prior to that to get it.When we went to put it on it didn't fit.After talking with AWR on the phone, they figured out that they welded the flange that bolts to the head upside down.So I sent it back and waited another 2 to 3 weeks for them to fix it.Got it back and had the car apart for a second time.It didn't fit again.This time the header was hitting the lower water hose.I called them again and they said they must have cut to much off the header when they fixed it.They also said they forgot to test fit it and the next one they would send me was suppose to fit.I didn't want to take another chance so I just got my money back.Now if this has happened to any one else, I don't know.But it's a pain in the a** when you have this much problems with something they say is suppose to "BOLT ON."
Last edited by Elizondo2001; May-7th-2003 at 10:23 PM.
May-8th-2003, 06:09 AM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Westerville, Ohio USA
Posts: 390
Originally posted by Elizondo2001
I got my AWR header in the beginning of April.It took 3 weeks prior to that to get it.When we went to put it on it didn't fit.After talking with AWR on the phone, they figured out that they welded the flange that bolts to the head upside down.So I sent it back and waited another 2 to 3 weeks for them to fix it.Got it back and had the car apart for a second time.It didn't fit again.This time the header was hitting the lower water hose.I called them again and they said they must have cut to much off the header when they fixed it.They also said they forgot to test fit it and the next one they would send me was suppose to fit.I didn't want to take another chance so I just got my money back.Now if this has happened to any one else, I don't know.But it's a pain in the a** when you have this much problems with something they say is suppose to "BOLT ON."
I got my AWR header in the beginning of April.It took 3 weeks prior to that to get it.When we went to put it on it didn't fit.After talking with AWR on the phone, they figured out that they welded the flange that bolts to the head upside down.So I sent it back and waited another 2 to 3 weeks for them to fix it.Got it back and had the car apart for a second time.It didn't fit again.This time the header was hitting the lower water hose.I called them again and they said they must have cut to much off the header when they fixed it.They also said they forgot to test fit it and the next one they would send me was suppose to fit.I didn't want to take another chance so I just got my money back.Now if this has happened to any one else, I don't know.But it's a pain in the a** when you have this much problems with something they say is suppose to "BOLT ON."
As for a fairly cheap MIL eliminator I'd use one from PonyExpressPerformance.com http://www.ponyexpressperformance.co...liminator.html It worked like a charm on my WRX (had all three cats removed.) They don't list a fix for the Protege, but the 02's are narrowband just like most others... so the one in the link should work just fine.
Zeus, please keep us posted. And take lots of pics!!
Thanks,
Jim
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