TIGHT MP5

If i were to order the high compression pistion's for $130 and the mazdaspeed exhaust cam and cork sport's intake cam both for under $300 then the head port and polished with a 3 angle job it would do nice since the chip is going to be tunded to handle that upgrade and the car should pull towads high 14's

Sir Nuke

EXACTLY what "TUNED CHIP" are you talking about?

Tornado

I was asking the Phantom Cruiser about the mods she made with the cams and manifold. I asked about pistons and she had concerns that the high compression pistons might not fit with the added size of the cams. Any ideas or suggestions?

My plan of the ultimate sleeper is getting clsoer as I consider the cams, manifold, and pistons

Help me Sir Nuke!

:edit:

I also spoke to my service manager about the parts. I asked if putting J-Spec Mazda parts affects the warranty. He said that as long as the dealership did the work it should be ok. Not sure if others knew this or not. I know I was happy to hear it. He esitmated about 20 hours of labor to do the job. that would be pistons, manifold and intake/exhaust cams.

Any ideas on labor estimate? Works out to about $800 CDN for the install and about $1500 cdn for parts... I think

Installshield

The high compression pistons would be fine with the j-spec camshafts, they are both from the FS-ZE (even the 10.7:1 Mazdaspeed pistons would work, they were designed for the FS-ZE I thought, please correct me If i am wrong)

Toyota's 180hp (2zzef or something) 1.8L vvtl-i has a compression ratio over 11:1 and some pretty aggressive upper rpm cam duration and lift, without any problems.

The biggest problem with the high compression pistons is the ECU. You won't even touch their potential without a new ECU or overcoming the stock ECUs maps...

for the labor of what you mentioned it would be about $800 for $40 an hour (U.S.), but I am not sure what your labor is at your dealership. Hell I am not sure if that is what my dealership charges, that is just average where I live...

That also seems really conservative labor time for a dealership. My dealer quoted me at over 12 hours for a clutch and flywheel install. i know that is rediculous and way longer than it really takes but dealers love to milk non warranty work in my experiance anyway...

Phantom Cruiser

Thanks for the info on the pistons. We were having some doubts about them! About the ECU, what ECU would you need to realize the full potential of the pistons? Or is anyone doing 'chips'?

All of my mods have been done by my husband and our friends. We save a lot on labor that way, however we do know what we are getting into as far as warranties go!

Perhaps in the future we will do the clutch and flywheel, though at this time it is not financially feasible.

Thanks again,

Karen

TIGHT MP5

THE COMPANY JET SAY THAT THEY COULD TUNE THE ECU FOR AROUND $350 I THINK IT WAS BUT ANYWAYS YOUR SUPOSE TO TELL THEM WHAT MODS YOU HAVE ON YOUR CAR AND THEY PROGRAM THE CORRECT AIR/FUEL RATIO FOR THE SET UP THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM, I HAVE READ AN ARTICLE ON ROGER FOO WHICH AT ONE POINT WAS DRIVIN AN MP5 WITH THE FS-ZE ENG WHICH HE HOOKED UP NICE. IT WAS PUSHIN AROUND 230 AT THE WHEELS HE HAD MANY CUSTOM THINGS IN IT BUT THIS IS JUST TO SHOW THAT THE 2.0L ARE PRITTEY NICE WHEN MORE AGGRESIVE CAM'S AND HIGHER COMPRESSION PISTONS ARE INSTALLED WITH THE RIGHT TUNING!

WITH OUT THE ECU BEING TUNED THE CAR RUNS BAD! I THINK PHANTOM SHOULD TAKE THE ECU TO JET OR SOME OTHER COMPAY THAT CAN WORK WITH OBD 2 AND SET UP THE CAR TO RUN BETTER!

Installshield

I have never heard anything good about JET, they will make your fuel map spiky meaning you will loose power in most rev ranges and gain a hp or two in useless spots. (This is not with a protege however, some friends of mine had GS-R's B18 tuned by JET and my neighbor had a DOHC neon engine tuned by JET, both with less overall power)

I do not have much experience at all with tuning ECUs. Most people on this forum claim that the stock ECU basically will override any changed signals manipulated by a piggy back system, although a few guys that probably know a ton about tuning claim that this is false (that Turboge barely legal transplants dude). I know Traveler, that seems to be missing, was using a Greddy E-Manage, which I think is a pretty elaborate piggyback system, on a '00 protege. I don't remember if the system functioned properly or not, try running a search on his name and view the threads he started, one of them was about that E-Manage.

Obviously a complete Stand alone ECU would rid the problem of the stock one, but at a price. I don't have any answers that will really get you anywhere, we just need to hope some more people get into ECU tuning on this forum to let the rest of us know what the best way is. I would do some trial and error if I had the time or the money (neither of which i have)

The best part is that according to some an E-manage or similar system may work for our Proteges, in which we have basically taken one of the most restrictive pieces of equipment on the car by the *****...for a much cheaper price than a complete stand alone (although the ****** is still around $800 I think, at least for all the things you need to go with it)

Phantom Cruiser

I am still waiting to hear if The Chip Guy is going to "crack the codes" for the P5 like he did for the Focus. We have a dyno-tuned "flip-chip" that has several different settings for boost, octane, etc.

I would definitely take my car to him and Turbo Tom for tuning, since they did a great job on our Focus!

*FYI, I am not going FI on my car, but I would like to have a chip done for the N/A mods that I am doing.

YellowPR5

Sir Nuke

well no real need to add much....seems that your questions have really been asnwered ..... however.....before you go and lay out the big bucks for those two cams...and the labor to have them installed.....go and get the specs on them....compare them to the stock cams....you will find the difference is VERY SLIGHT in the lift and their duration.....don't expect to get huge ammounts of HP with just swapping in the cams....

and if you add the HC pistons.....also be prepared to start prying open your wallet/purse when you pull up to the gas pumps...as you better start putting in preimum gas....as you will need it for the higher compression.

if you want to make some real power with our engine....and keep it streetable....there is only one real way to do that....and that is forced induction, TURBO.

Tight MP5 mentioned Rodger Foos car making 230 hp at the wheels....well that was his RACE CAR....not exactly set up to be driven on the street....not to mention there is no place in the country that you could LEGALLY get it inspected for emmisions complience and have it pass.

Just MY .02 on the subject.

Installshield

I agree with you 100% that that is the cheapest and most practical way to make huge power increases, but I stand by the fact that a series of simple bolt-ons +someinternal upgrades (cams, possibly various levels of head polishing) and the FS-ZE intake manifold, engine management etc. is the safest, as far as reliability goes, and cheapest to make a decent sport compact protege. you will never get the immense torque of forced induction but you will get a engine that is much more willing to pull to redline.

you also mentioned the increase in gas price for using premium fuel once increasing engine compression. This is true, but it is also very true for forced induction. Knocking will be just as much a problem, if not more, with a turbo despite keeping the same compression as stock.

When deciding what to do with an FS, you need to seriously consider a lot of variables before you plunk down the change for the upgrades. If you want a really fast sleeper, forget everything except the ECU and spend the money (a lot of it) on a turbo. If you are just looking for a reasonably quick wagon or sedan, like me, start upgrading in steps with the basic things. It has been said hundreds of times before but a protege's forte is the turns, not the strip. I am just upgrading the engine to eliminate some of its trouble breathing and concentrating as much as I can on the suspension.

To compare a slightly tuned P5 to the other compacts in the market look at Phantom Cruiser's. She has a Protege with around 120whp, which is I guess approx. 150bhp and about 5lb/ft more torque. That is within 20hp of a SE-R Spec V with much more favoring gear ratio's. With some more internal work and hopefully a ECU upgrade made available she could hold her own with all the stock compacts in the market. I am beginning to babble so I will stop...Except that all this was accomplished for well under $1000, and she has just as much reliability as when she bought the car new....And she is by no means "out of things to do"

chdesign

Just something to mull over.....Roger Foo's protege runs 13.5:1 compression and C16 RACE GAS.....My setup not the sig need to update it but my turbo setup now 195 whp 93 octance 6.5 psi

Tornado

I guess my flair for the dramatic got the best of me. I've looked at the turbo's avaible for the P5 and to be honest they all sort of scared me. The dollar amount isn't insignificant and the work needed to be done is extensive. I was told that I could do the turbo install myself but I know myslef I don't have the confidence to go ahead and start that big a project.

To be honest Phantom Cruiser's car was a big eye opener. An increase in horse power while staying away from huge modifications. When I say sleeper I guess I mean relative to what people expect from a P5.

I think I'm going to go with the cams and an exhaust to start and see what I think.

As was mentioned earlier the Protege is a drivers car, able in the turns and a little extra power should only help to make a fun car to drive even more fun.

On a personal note I read the how to on manifolds but if someone could offer a Dumb and Dumber explination for me I'd appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you for your help

Phantom Cruiser

Good thread!

I knew that this car (as opposed to our Turbo Focus) was never going to be a 1/4 mile monster, although I did surprise a lot of people by running a high 16 stock. After we took it for some high speed touring, we thought that the Protege5 was a great turner, but it just lacked in a little 'get up and go'. After doing some adjustments of my budget, I decided that I wanted to do as much performance as I could for about $800 US. I am pretty satisfied so far with the money that was spent. Although I am luckier than most that I have a husband and lots of friends who are into cars and love to do this work. It has saved me quite a lot of money on installation. Buying them beer helps too...

I can't wait until the track opens up again (I'm hearing March) and we can see what type of improvement the added power makes. After spending some time behind the wheel, we can then decide what we want to upgrade suspension-wise, and how much $$ we are willing to put into those upgrades.

Am I rambling?

Karen