Thoughts on B6 HP
April-7th-2002, 08:12 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6
Thoughts on B6 HP
Thoughts on HP
Just picked up this British mag "Cars and Car Conversions" (March 2002)
which is aimed at racers, race car builders & tech heads.
In it is a comparison of three "hot hatch" race cars: Peugeot 205, Citroen
Saxo 1.6, & Citroen AX 1.3l.
You're probably asking: "What's this got to do with my 323?"
Well, I reckon since that the majority of us are driving models with the
NA B6 motor, more than you might suspect.
Listen, since I began messing around with this car upgraded parts & accessories
have been a b**** to find. If you ask for motor stuff you are greeted with sneers
& a "why don't you just swap it with a B6T" response. This is a result
of the belief that no potential exists in this motor, & the B6T is far sexier
& supported well by the aftermarket industry.
Well, I believe that there is plenty room for improvement in the B6,
& I wanna find it.
To do so, first, consider the low stock HP number of the B6: This
I believe was a result of the era of which the car was engineered & built.
A primary selling feature during this time was gas mileage. What better
way to increase that number but by de-tuning the engine, a trade off
would increased durability & decreased maintenance costs - both excellent
selling features for a product meant to be a second car & grocery getter.
Secondly, consider how this was achieved: constrictive air intake & exhaust
system tuned to favour low end torque, this would be mated to a heavy
flywheel which would also contribute urban/metro drivability. A mild cam,
fuel friendly timimg & ECU rounded out the package.
Now, back to the Brit magazine. The Peugeot 205 was a French hatchback
sold in the fuel conscious '80s. The model race tested by the writers
is based on a eight valve 1.6l sohc (sound familiar?) engine.
The peak HP (at the wheels) of this highly tuned beast? Sit down...179
@7800 rpm. Peak torque? 133 ftlb @ 5700 rpm. Granted, this car is in full
race setup, & street driving would be unmanagable, but says something
about potential.
Getting at that potential is the problem. Many of us have done the intake/
exhaust fix. The improvement is very noticable. But, to get more zip other
areas need to be addressed.
I spoke to Geoff at Colt Cams:
http://www.coltcams.com/
He said he the stock profile is quite mild & that can do a regrind on
it that will result in an improvement from 2200 rpm and up. Cost is
US$125.00 or so (+ shipping & your cam). He's a helpful guy, & I will
be using his services.
The potential of the of the B6 is there, let's squeeze it out!
Just picked up this British mag "Cars and Car Conversions" (March 2002)
which is aimed at racers, race car builders & tech heads.
In it is a comparison of three "hot hatch" race cars: Peugeot 205, Citroen
Saxo 1.6, & Citroen AX 1.3l.
You're probably asking: "What's this got to do with my 323?"
Well, I reckon since that the majority of us are driving models with the
NA B6 motor, more than you might suspect.
Listen, since I began messing around with this car upgraded parts & accessories
have been a b**** to find. If you ask for motor stuff you are greeted with sneers
& a "why don't you just swap it with a B6T" response. This is a result
of the belief that no potential exists in this motor, & the B6T is far sexier
& supported well by the aftermarket industry.
Well, I believe that there is plenty room for improvement in the B6,
& I wanna find it.
To do so, first, consider the low stock HP number of the B6: This
I believe was a result of the era of which the car was engineered & built.
A primary selling feature during this time was gas mileage. What better
way to increase that number but by de-tuning the engine, a trade off
would increased durability & decreased maintenance costs - both excellent
selling features for a product meant to be a second car & grocery getter.
Secondly, consider how this was achieved: constrictive air intake & exhaust
system tuned to favour low end torque, this would be mated to a heavy
flywheel which would also contribute urban/metro drivability. A mild cam,
fuel friendly timimg & ECU rounded out the package.
Now, back to the Brit magazine. The Peugeot 205 was a French hatchback
sold in the fuel conscious '80s. The model race tested by the writers
is based on a eight valve 1.6l sohc (sound familiar?) engine.
The peak HP (at the wheels) of this highly tuned beast? Sit down...179
@7800 rpm. Peak torque? 133 ftlb @ 5700 rpm. Granted, this car is in full
race setup, & street driving would be unmanagable, but says something
about potential.
Getting at that potential is the problem. Many of us have done the intake/
exhaust fix. The improvement is very noticable. But, to get more zip other
areas need to be addressed.
I spoke to Geoff at Colt Cams:
http://www.coltcams.com/
He said he the stock profile is quite mild & that can do a regrind on
it that will result in an improvement from 2200 rpm and up. Cost is
US$125.00 or so (+ shipping & your cam). He's a helpful guy, & I will
be using his services.
The potential of the of the B6 is there, let's squeeze it out!
April-9th-2002, 05:27 PM
#3
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 25
General statement at best of any application.....
And not the best solution, not cost effective for a B6 ..... not even an option.
86-89 B6 has a cam not cams.
I think you just like to say Stand Alone alot
I have seen you mention it quite a bit on this board.
Stand Alone would be a waste on a B6 becuase 86-89 B6 computer controls fuel only, ignition is 100% mechanical. Which is also why a ECU tweak is a waste of $$$ because your only getting half the product for all the $$$.
Now back to a modifying a 86-89 B6.
Great post Stig!
Your on the right track for sure....
A head completely done by somebody you know, yourself is possible, or a DPR head with cam. Genie headers, intake, complete 2" exhaust system (2.25" & larger not effective, gotta love those 3" systems on low HP vehicles
LOL), RX7 MAF, RX7 fuel pump, ECU tweak (although getting ripped off and not needed) and performance ignition system.
That is your most simple & cost effective B6 solution IMO.
But no shortcuts, systems must be complete.
That will take the 85 HP to about 115-125 HP. (great in a 2000lb car with a 4-speed & 4:11 gears!)
Then you install a ZEX 50 HP kit to a grand total of 165-175 HP. (that's what the RX7 fuel pump is need for)
That's probablly the simplist cost efficent most HP for the buck via a 86-89 B6.
And not the best solution, not cost effective for a B6 ..... not even an option.
86-89 B6 has a cam not cams.
I think you just like to say Stand Alone alot
I have seen you mention it quite a bit on this board.Stand Alone would be a waste on a B6 becuase 86-89 B6 computer controls fuel only, ignition is 100% mechanical. Which is also why a ECU tweak is a waste of $$$ because your only getting half the product for all the $$$.
Now back to a modifying a 86-89 B6.
Great post Stig!
Your on the right track for sure....
A head completely done by somebody you know, yourself is possible, or a DPR head with cam. Genie headers, intake, complete 2" exhaust system (2.25" & larger not effective, gotta love those 3" systems on low HP vehicles
LOL), RX7 MAF, RX7 fuel pump, ECU tweak (although getting ripped off and not needed) and performance ignition system.That is your most simple & cost effective B6 solution IMO.
But no shortcuts, systems must be complete.
That will take the 85 HP to about 115-125 HP. (great in a 2000lb car with a 4-speed & 4:11 gears!)
Then you install a ZEX 50 HP kit to a grand total of 165-175 HP. (that's what the RX7 fuel pump is need for)
That's probablly the simplist cost efficent most HP for the buck via a 86-89 B6.
Last edited by DannyK; April-9th-2002 at 05:33 PM.
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