btaira

Does it make sense to get a bigger rear sway bar if my existing sway bar already lifts the inside rear wheel off the ground when turning? Would getting stiffer rear shock/springs make more sense?

Maz94Protege

Maybe bar is too tight. softer springs and shocks might help.

Davard

The problem isn't really the rear...it's the front. You don't have the stiffness up front to keep all the weight transferring to the outside front and off the inside rear.

Stock, my Protege would occasionally lift an inside rear on R-tires, given the right surface or an aggresive enough driving style. One time I tried a set of 225/50-14 BFG R1s on the front. In a turnaround on a brushed concrete pad, the inside rear wheel came about 6-8" off the ground.

With my full STS suspension, I can occasionally lift an inside rear under braking, and have the 1" rear bar (but you should see it lift if I hit a driveway at an angle). Since I didn't put on a bigger rear bar until I also lowered the car, I can't say how just a big rear bar would affect things.

But, done as a unit (shocks/springs/bars) would be better than done separately.

mazdaspeedwest

well, i'm kinda in the same boat as David, as i did springs and bars at near the same time...but once the rear bar was on, i noticed less tendency to oversteer but when it did, it was more predictable and controlable, but turn-in improved and i noticed less understeer. Actually, I really haven't had much of an understeer problem since.

and Yes, watch out for driveways a good lift could break the bars frame mount.

ST rear bar, stock front, poly bushings F/R

some 205/50/15's would help too

kcbhiw

This will only cause you to lift the inside rear even more. A softer setup will compress even more than what's current installed when loaded.

btaira

Davard,

In light of what you said, would you recommend that I get the ST front sway bar add on? Or would it give me so much understeer that it would negate any benefit of a stiffer front? How about the ST front and rear bars?

My current set up is as follows: ZX2 s/r struts, Progress springs (1.5" drop, 240f/140r), modified stock rear sway (I drilled new end link mountings holes apx. 1" in from the original holes).

Currently, the inside rear wheel comes off the ground on very tight (slow) corners, even without applying the brakes!

btaira

Very interesting. Before this thread, I had never even considered getting a stiffer front bar without also getting the CMS rear bar. I thought that using the ST rear bar alone would be preferable to using both front and rear ST bars.

Now I'm thinking that the ST front bar, by eliminating some of the front end roll, will get me through the corners faster, even if it results in a little more understeer.

Davard

The car seems to work with just the rear ST bar. Or with both ST bars. Or with the ST front and CMS (Quickor) rear. It rotates better with the rear CMS bar, but would probably be undriveable without the ST front to balance the car. Although, if you were racing, you could do without by using insanely stiff springs (The 3G trunk kit uses 600lb rear springs!), but that would make the car too twitchy for the street or autocross (although some prefer that).

Will hasn't gotten around to trying the front ZX-2 bar yet, but since he'll be doing the clutch on the white EGT (and will have the engine out), he may try it out then.

What part of the country are you in, btaira?

mazdaspeedwest

when i switched to the H&R springs, the rear of the car dramatically changed. The H&R aren't that much stiffer up front than the Eibachs, but they are stiffer out back, where it's needed.

With your current set up, a spring swap would change things more than a sway bar swap.

Barry, you know your always free to drive my car anytime...if i had seen you earlier than grid last event, i would have offered you a co-drive...oh well....

also, with the 1" rear bar, a good set of frame mounts will need to be made and may also want to think about seam welding the fixed chassis mounts, as they are only tack welded. Not that it's happened yet, as far as i know...

and like i said, my understeer is minimal now and i'm still on struts/springs and just crash bolts for camber up front.

btaira

Darryl,
You are a good man (and a good driver to boot!). I think I may take you up on your offer the next time I see you. The next autocross in San Diego is on Saturday, but I won't be able to make it. My 4 year old has his first soccer game at the same time.
I sent in my check for the practice session on December 7 (limited to 30 drivers) the day after I received the notice in the mail, but it was already full. Also, sorry for not being very social after the events. I'm usually in a rush to get home to watch the Chargers blow a big lead!

David (Avard),
As you may have already guessed, I live in San Diego. Incidentally, thanks for the insight on why my car does what it does. You are absolutely right about the driveways. No matter how slowly I turn into a driveway, the inside rear pops up as soon as the outside front hits the sidewalk. I just order the ST front and rear set. Hopefully, the front will mitigate this effect. I don't know if I will install the rear bar, since my modified stock bar is probably already stiffer. Finally, has Quickor redesigned their bar yet? If you talk to them, tell them that I would be willing to give them a brand new ST rear bar (for research purposes), if they give me their redesigned bar when it is completed.