beachnut

Ok, before someone says "Do a search", - I did ! After reading just about every thread here regarding this swap, it seems like there's not a lot of solid info for the Pro, MX-3 yes, but not the Pro. This is understandable since it also seems that hardly anyone has ever done this outside of ASpec. And speaking of ASpec, that's a killer deal. Could I do it? Sure, but the time and money to travel to Toronto would just about cost me as much as it would to buy the motor from an importer. Doesn't really make sense to my wallet (and my wife!). So, let's just say that's not a solution.

Here's my biggest question and I know others have asked it, but there's no clear-cut concensus. Maybe there's no answer, again because of lack of info, but please comment anyway - I'm really interested in everyone's opinion. Do we really need to swap all the suspension parts? The reason I ask is because I've just spent about $1000 for Tokico ZX2 struts, Eibach Pro springs, Brembo rotors, calipers, and pads. I also had my two lower motors replaced and bought a PRM intake, but I can get over that. It's the suspension stuff that concerns me. And did I read the posts correctly that even the LCA's would have to be replaced?

I'm guessing here that these things are required due to the weight and torque of the KL-ZE. I need to make some sense out of this though. The BPT can produce as much torque, but the suspension bits aren't required for that swap. The KL-ZE is supposed to be lightweight since it's all aluminum. Does anyone know the the exact weight difference between the KL-ZE and the DOHC BP?

And what about having my Eibach's/Tokico ZX2 struts? Wouldn't that help? Weren't these made for a slightly heavier ZX2? Does anyone know the weight difference between the Pro and the ZX2?

I know the tranny needs replaced too. I would go with the 5spd w/lsd. Does anyone happen to know the weight difference between that tranny and the LX Pro tranny?

Sorry for the long post guys ... but I've got a bad case of "Speedbug" and I'm on a quest!

funkdaddysmack

You, too have many of the questions I was concered about. I really would like to do the KL-ZE, but like you I just got the struts and springs, and it would be a hell of a shame to let those go to waste. I believe the suspension components need to be swapped because of the drive axels from the KL-ZE, they're possibly a different length requiring a new setup? I dunno, your guess is good as mine.

As for the weight differences, I believe I read the two engines were very similar in weight, the KL-ZE being about 20lbs lighter I think. Maybe more, maybe less. As for the transmission, I also believe it uses a slightly different G-series transmission not unlike the LX tranny. Perhaps the bellhousings are the main difference, I suspect the gearing is also different. Again, I could be wrong, but I think I read that somewhere too. If that's the case, they would also be very comparable weight-wise. Perhaps the LSD would even give you a few lbs coming close to the weight of the BP.

By the way, I have the ZX2 struts on my 323, which is lighter yet than the Protege without any problems, it handles like great I also have the Eibach Pro spring kit for the ZX2, I'm not sure if there is a big (if any) difference from the springs desinged for the BG protege/323.

I, too, believe that the A-spec deal is killer, but I'm going to be pissed if I can't use any of my front suspension that I'm currently using. Toronto isn't too far from me, I think

superdave

Regarding suspension. This is all theory... well most of it

The bell housing is the major difference in trannies I believe. The question really is, are the size and number of splines for the axles in the Protege tranny, MX-3 tranny, and 626/MX-6/Probe tranny the same? I thought MX-3 and Protege had the same number of splines on the axles. If thats the case your fine with your current suspension, using DOHC protege axles. If not then you need to use MX-3 axles. Say they won't mate up to the protege hubs... You'll need MX-3 hubs, and maybe lower control arms. STILL though, you should be fine with your strut and spring combo. MX-3 guys are using the ZX2 struts aswell. Worst case scenerio (if parts of the above are true) then your sprigns and struts are fine, and you my have to change hubs and lower control arms. Does that make sense to anyone else?

beachnut

Well, I think Jesse said that you have to use MX-3 axles, so I didn't mention that before - just took it for granted. I didn't think about the splines being different and requiring hubs, but would the MX-3 hubs still allow me to use the Brembo 4-lug rotors? I think the answer is yes, but if the hubs change, what about calipers? I can't imagine the axles being shorter or longer, wouldn't that make it totally impossible for a Pro then?

superdave

So then DOHC protege axles should do the trick? Awesome.

beachnut

I don't think that's what Jesse said, or did he :shrug:?

IF the only difference is the tranny bellhousing AND the splines are the same, then PERHAPS the axles are fine too. This would be great since I just replaced mine. This will require more research.

beachnut

Ok, so here's my intake manifold findings so far. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

The KL-ZE was used in the JDM MX-6, Efini MS8, Eunos 800, and maybe others. There are several different intake manifolds. The one that will work best is from the Eunos 800 (the JDM Milennia), but the third one looks like it will work too. However, I don't know how to identify it or what vehicle it came from.

Eunos 800 Intake Manifold


MX-6/Efini MS8 Intake Manifold


Unknown KL-ZE Intake Manifold

PinkMX-3

The third one is a K8 manifold.

beachnut

Thanks David ... I realized that after seeing a pic of a K8 for sale on eBay, but I couldn't post last night for some reason. Btw, David's site is where I got the first two pics (to give him proper credit!). The third pic came from A-Spec's site, which has me wondering why they're advertising and apparently showing pics of a KL-ZE swap, but with a K8 manifold .

So David, what do you think of the axle question? Can we use Pro LX manual tranny axles?

PinkMX-3

yeah, that 3rd pic is Bobby's car, which was a KLZE with a K8 intake manifold, cause it fits.

I'm pretty sure the BP axles should work. Lemme email my buddy who put a K8 in a BG 323 and see what he has to say. Also, you're welcome to come up to Gainesville and check the car out whenver you want. The 200bhp NA V6 is quite fun, even with the tall highway gears

PinkMX-3

Well, I got a quick reply:
So he didnt swap the subframe, but said it'd be easier if you did. The subframe is only another hour of work past a regular engine replacement, so that's not too bad, but it seems like getting a parts MX-3 is the way to go.

beachnut

Yeah, I just dug up the info on the speedo cable and said to myself "there's another issue" ....

<sigh> Well, a little harder than a direct bolt-in, eh? I wish I lived closer to Toronto, but then again I wouldn't enjoy the winters half as much!

Thanks again for your help David! Sounds like I need to call around for some prices on a MX3 front clip.

PinkMX-3

yeah, you don't have to use the MX-3 subframe, but it would make it alot easier: Just unbolt the struts, subframe, and disconnect the misc electronics and drop it into the 323 after you've run the wiring in it. Could probably do it in a weekend easily like that. Also remember to swap over the control arms as the MX-3 ones are like half an inch longer than the other BG cars'.

The other thing about the 323 crossmember is the lack of a big front swaybar like the MX-3 has. Without the front swaybar and a powerful engine, it's a bit looser that one would like. More weight, wider track, no front swaybar, 205/55/15 rubber from a MX-3 GS, and old stock suspension makes for alot of body roll I hear

Also, the radiator on the 323's [and possibly the Protege's...I don't remember comparing when we had Jesse's out] is a bit smallish for a high compression 2.5L. The K8 radiator won't fit, but one from a Hyundai pony will. I'm sure there are some custom units that will also bolt in that will be even better with multiple cores etc. Just go to autozone and walk through their radiators to find one that looks good enough size

midnightblue97

What about one from a PGT or MX-6?
An ATX equipped donor car has a larger capacity and more cooling fins etc. if I'm not mistaken.

PinkMX-3

KLZE Emissions results Note that the KLZE running on a K8 VAF/ECU will run chokingly rich and foul out plugs. I know cause I have the same setup till my ZE ECU comes.