Anyone know anything about metal??
April-5th-2003, 02:18 PM
#1
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Anyone know anything about metal??
More specifically a metal that is just as strong as steel, but heavier.
Something that could be the same outside dimensions and length but be hollow inside rather than solid, and still weigh the same. Also it preferably costs the same or only slightly more.
Something that could be the same outside dimensions and length but be hollow inside rather than solid, and still weigh the same. Also it preferably costs the same or only slightly more.
Last edited by midnightblue97; April-5th-2003 at 02:31 PM.
April-5th-2003, 05:55 PM
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Those chart things were way over my head.
I'm not sure if it should be hard or soft because its function would be to get lifted up and dropped on rock all day. Mind you there would be tungsten carbide inserts which would actually be hitting the rock and not the steel itself, and it would be just about any type of rock, not just one specific type, so the hardness of that would vary.I'm not a metallurgist, but hardened steel is more brittle than softer steel if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not sure if it should be hard or soft because its function would be to get lifted up and dropped on rock all day. Mind you there would be tungsten carbide inserts which would actually be hitting the rock and not the steel itself, and it would be just about any type of rock, not just one specific type, so the hardness of that would vary.I'm not a metallurgist, but hardened steel is more brittle than softer steel if I'm not mistaken.
April-5th-2003, 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Correct, and nor am I. I only have a basic academic basis from a materials class at school. But when you say "strong", you have to really be specific as to what you mean. Do you want something that will, for example be very hard, but brittle, or something pretty soft, that will bend and give easier.
Correct, and nor am I. I only have a basic academic basis from a materials class at school. But when you say "strong", you have to really be specific as to what you mean. Do you want something that will, for example be very hard, but brittle, or something pretty soft, that will bend and give easier.
April-5th-2003, 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by midnightblue97
It has to go through pretty much any geological formation hard or soft and be able to take it, without bending, breaking etc.
It has to go through pretty much any geological formation hard or soft and be able to take it, without bending, breaking etc.
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April-7th-2003, 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by midnightblue97
Geologist??
You know any exploration companies looking for drillers??
Geologist??
You know any exploration companies looking for drillers??
Drillers would be sought after, fairly highly, for water supplies, certainly. You'd need some specialized experience to move onto hydrocarbon/mineral exploration (but then again, those would be high paying jobs.)
BTW, what wrong with a diamond-tipped (or even carbide) rotary core? usually, the most important factor is to have plenty of fluids when drilling bore holes. You certainly don't want to do this "dry" or you'd overheat your bit, plus it would require much more force. Most geologic materials can be drilled through, some with more time and patience than others...
April-7th-2003, 02:42 PM
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If you are looking for materials to replace steel for that application, don't. It's cheap, highly hardenable, and tough as nails (no pun intended). At low temperatures where weight is not important and price is, it is tough to compete with steel alloys.
The properties you are looking for, by the sounds of it, is toughness and fatigue strength. Toughness is kind of an energy absorption measurements, kind of break-not-break, which is very important in impact and fatigue loading. Fatigue strength means repeated loading, and how well the material does under it. Aluminum has crap strength and even worse fatigue strength. Steel (like cro-mo 4340) can be heat treated to give it a high surface hardness for wear and fatigue strength, while still remaining ductile in its core. Chro-moly isn't light though, I believe it is denser than regular carbon steels.
To clarify on those charts pseudo gave, generally speaking, the higher the carbon content (the 40 or 80 in 1040 or 1080 steels) the higher the strength and hardness of the steel. These steels are also less ductile and tough than lower carbon steels.
I totally agree with fossil boy on the tips, carbide is cheap and will cut anything when lubed right.
The properties you are looking for, by the sounds of it, is toughness and fatigue strength. Toughness is kind of an energy absorption measurements, kind of break-not-break, which is very important in impact and fatigue loading. Fatigue strength means repeated loading, and how well the material does under it. Aluminum has crap strength and even worse fatigue strength. Steel (like cro-mo 4340) can be heat treated to give it a high surface hardness for wear and fatigue strength, while still remaining ductile in its core. Chro-moly isn't light though, I believe it is denser than regular carbon steels.
To clarify on those charts pseudo gave, generally speaking, the higher the carbon content (the 40 or 80 in 1040 or 1080 steels) the higher the strength and hardness of the steel. These steels are also less ductile and tough than lower carbon steels.
I totally agree with fossil boy on the tips, carbide is cheap and will cut anything when lubed right.
April-7th-2003, 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by fossil boy
Drillers would be sought after, fairly highly, for water supplies, certainly. You'd need some specialized experience to move onto hydrocarbon/mineral exploration
BTW, what wrong with a diamond-tipped (or even carbide) rotary core? usually, the most important factor is to have plenty of fluids when drilling bore holes. You certainly don't want to do this "dry" or you'd overheat your bit, plus it would require much more force. Most geologic materials can be drilled through, some with more time and patience than others...
Drillers would be sought after, fairly highly, for water supplies, certainly. You'd need some specialized experience to move onto hydrocarbon/mineral exploration
BTW, what wrong with a diamond-tipped (or even carbide) rotary core? usually, the most important factor is to have plenty of fluids when drilling bore holes. You certainly don't want to do this "dry" or you'd overheat your bit, plus it would require much more force. Most geologic materials can be drilled through, some with more time and patience than others...
A couple weeks ago in my Diamond core lab we burnt out a 700$ Longyear series 2 (or 4) impregnated bit in about 2 minutes because there was a blockage in the inner tube. We just use straight water for fluids with that. For Horizontal Directional we were using alot of bentonite and polymer based fluids, depending on application.
Anyways, enough of that. Cable tool drilling is mostly dry, until you eventually hit the water table, and the bits are tipped with tungsten carbide inserts, so the steel is't really whats doing the drilling, its just providing the weight.
April-7th-2003, 04:17 PM
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For that, I can only recommend uranium or tungsten, both of which would give you your required densities. Obviously you can't use any of those materials. The problem with this is your design requirement for the same weight but a hollow tube? Are you trying to core out the ground, b/c that is the only reason for the hollow tube in this case. Also, what is the hollow tube wall thickness?
To be quite honest I will quote Aerosmith...."Dream On".
You will not find any reasonably priced material of comparable strength out there. Since i am simply speculating what your design requirements are, I would guess you use the weight to hammer at the ground. If this is the case, try hydraulics or a longer (40ft) pole. It is hard for me to design something w/o any parameters to follow, such as weight, cost, loading, machine it is going in, etc. Hell, I'm good, but not that good. 
To be quite honest I will quote Aerosmith...."Dream On".
You will not find any reasonably priced material of comparable strength out there. Since i am simply speculating what your design requirements are, I would guess you use the weight to hammer at the ground. If this is the case, try hydraulics or a longer (40ft) pole. It is hard for me to design something w/o any parameters to follow, such as weight, cost, loading, machine it is going in, etc. Hell, I'm good, but not that good.
April-7th-2003, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by arl240
For that, I can only recommend uranium or tungsten, both of which would give you your required densities. Obviously you can't use any of those materials. The problem with this is your design requirement for the same weight but a hollow tube? Are you trying to core out the ground, b/c that is the only reason for the hollow tube in this case. Also, what is the hollow tube wall thickness?
To be quite honest I will quote Aerosmith...."Dream On". You will not find any reasonably priced material of comparable strength out there. Since i am simply speculating what your design requirements are, I would guess you use the weight to hammer at the ground. If this is the case, try hydraulics or a longer (40ft) pole. It is hard for me to design something w/o any parameters to follow, such as weight, cost, loading, machine it is going in, etc. Hell, I'm good, but not that good.
For that, I can only recommend uranium or tungsten, both of which would give you your required densities. Obviously you can't use any of those materials. The problem with this is your design requirement for the same weight but a hollow tube? Are you trying to core out the ground, b/c that is the only reason for the hollow tube in this case. Also, what is the hollow tube wall thickness?
To be quite honest I will quote Aerosmith...."Dream On".
You will not find any reasonably priced material of comparable strength out there. Since i am simply speculating what your design requirements are, I would guess you use the weight to hammer at the ground. If this is the case, try hydraulics or a longer (40ft) pole. It is hard for me to design something w/o any parameters to follow, such as weight, cost, loading, machine it is going in, etc. Hell, I'm good, but not that good.
You're probably right though, I'm just dreaming
April-8th-2003, 10:26 AM
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Interesting, there Midnight!
So if you want to 'Fracture" rocks (or are you more concerned with getting through unconsolidated material?), then hydraulic methods can be used to increase pressure to aid in breaking through them. Sometimes, explosives can also be used.
Punching through rocks would cause much stress on your device; much less force is used if you are coring or augering.
It would seem to me, then, that you are looking for a cheap, efficient means to bore shallow holes, correct? Certainly, there are numerous ways to drill wells, successfully, but it may be rather expensive to use a drill rig for, say, a 40' hole.
Insofar as job opportunities, most drilling operations are contracted out to independent firms.
I know of only one or two environmental companies that actually maintain their own drilling crews and equipment.
But hey, the P5 would look cool with a derrick on top.
Good luck!
So if you want to 'Fracture" rocks (or are you more concerned with getting through unconsolidated material?), then hydraulic methods can be used to increase pressure to aid in breaking through them. Sometimes, explosives can also be used.
Punching through rocks would cause much stress on your device; much less force is used if you are coring or augering.
It would seem to me, then, that you are looking for a cheap, efficient means to bore shallow holes, correct? Certainly, there are numerous ways to drill wells, successfully, but it may be rather expensive to use a drill rig for, say, a 40' hole.
Insofar as job opportunities, most drilling operations are contracted out to independent firms.
I know of only one or two environmental companies that actually maintain their own drilling crews and equipment.
But hey, the P5 would look cool with a derrick on top.
Good luck!