3LZ24

hehehe.... yeah, i'm a "troll" from the .org too (Spanky)..... i was sure i'd seen an Eco Dyno sheet, but it's too hard to keep track of who's telling the truth and who's reading from a magazine

If there's one person to listen too and who knows the truth it's good 'ole Misnblu

I can't wait to make use of my 2 "spare" cylinders and pull alot more torque out of the engine Love my Z24 and it'll be quick when i'm done........ but all in all, i would love to own a Pro5 for a daily driver...... maybe if the Focus doesn't go through...... i mean i can get a Pro5 at dealer cost

hmmmm........

And yes, it's nice to see that the peeps here are, for the most part, friendly....... kinda like the Hyundai and Neon guys.......

do i see a Ontario J-body, Hyundai, Neon and Prot. meet somewhere in the future......

mixmaster_matt

The Celebritys had a 2.5 and 2.8 in them, that was my first car. The 2.5 was a 4 cylinder and the 2.8 was a 6 cylinder.

Installshield

I own a 5 speed P5 and pulled 3 car lengths ahead of a 92(I think I said that the kids was a 94 earlier, it is not its a 92)

His engine has been completely rebuilt after throwing a rod at 100,000 miles (built to last?). his is a 3 speed auto as well.

Not to be an ******* but 140hp/185lb ft of torque + 3 speed auto + 3600 lb curb weight or something = slow as **** car. the car jumps ok I guess but after 4000 RPM he had to pull his pants back up. Show me some time slips and I will believe that thing could beat a 2.0L protege.

I have never seen a automatic Cavalier pre 94 that broke 17 seconds. If you have some slips, please post them and then my ignorance will be deleted.

On a smaller note there is a replacement for displacement:
1. Better engineering
2. Turbo

3LZ24

lets first say this, the Z24 is UNDER 2700lbs, not 3600lbs...... here is a timeslip of a mostly stock 3spd, 3.1L V6, '90 Z24 (which this guy bought for $300.)..... http://www.j-body.org/members/shane89z24/cars/2/ unless you believe that a shocks, muffler and K&N drop in will knock 2 secs off a 1/4 mile and maybe it was a 2.2 you were racing?

http://www.j-body.org/registry/shane...tey%20slip.jpg

nick

My 1987 GLH-S is 2.2 litre and has 175 HP and 200 LBs of torque from 2200 to 4500 rpm. and runs a 14.5 @97 mph STOCK!

Misnblu

Thats the same guy I was going to link.
Hes not doing too bad and once again the misconception on the z24 platform is turned around.
On the GLH, damn were they fast. I loved those cars and wish they would never have gone away.
Shelby had a thing going with the glh series, too bad the turbo's never really held up for the long term.
One last thing, the 3rd gen z24's weigh about 2800 lbs and the second gen for the most part are a few pounds heavier.
Love the P5 Protege's and are hot automobiles. Love the styling and seems everybody is copying that particular style.
Misnblu

nightowl

ya but they are not doiing a very good job at copying the style

Installshield

I stand corrected. I must have looked at some other number on the inside of his door. I just believed what he said about it being really heavy, and the sticker was really faded. But his official quarter mile times have always been barely sub 18's. His engine was rebuilt and had plenty of time to be properly re-broken in. I have not really raced any other 3.1L, but I did race a 2.8L and beat him as well. Next weekend he will probably go to the track and I will post his time slip.

Misnblu

He probably cant drive. Remember, its not always the car but the driver too.
Heck, if he's running 17's and 18's, my Ford Fairmont beater can take him. lol
Btw, what do you guys run with the P5 Protege's??
Just curious as there are so few here in my town.
My favorite are the yellow p5's. They look so good from the factory as they are and really dont need any kind of exterior mod except the loweing of the car.
Misnblu

Installshield

It is an Auto though. There is not a whole lot of different things he can do to screw it up. He drove it while shifting it himself, and leaving it in drive. He launched by holding the brake and climbing to about 2400 rpm or something (whatever the stall converters limit is) and he launched by mashing the gas at the light. He has owned the car for almost a year, and tested it probably 20 times. The transmission itself feels terribly sluggish during shifts. I don't know if all of the autos are like that or not

Misnblu

There is no hope for the 3 speed tranny and its shifting.
For the third gen z24's they make the Autotransinterceptor for better shifting for the 4 speed auto tranny.
I own one and have it on my car and love the shifting. It shifts as hard and as fast as anyone can shift a manual tranny so it helps us at the track and street. It is fully adjustable and is a simple plug in.
This one mod makes it a pleasure to drive an auto again.
My 86z24 is a stick and Honda was a stick, I miss my stick.
Misnblu

z243.1

Lets just get one thing straight here...stock vs stock with equal drivers, you're not gonna beat a 2.4 or 3.1 Z24 with a protege. Agaisnt a 2.8, it would be pretty close. The 2.8L equipped Z24s had 130 HP, 165 ft-lbs of torque and weigh roughly 2600 lbs. So that's equal HP and less weight than a protege.

As for the 2.4 and 3.1, just look at it this way. The weight of a second generation (1988-1994) Z24 varies anywhere between 2600-2700 lbs depending on the year, while the thrid gens (95-up) are slightly heavier ( misnblu, you were wrong about that...). A protege weighs just under 2700 lbs, while an mp5 is over 2700 lbs. Either way you look at it, the Z24 has both the HP, torque and weight advantage on the protege. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against proteges, but you can't overlook facts. As for the 3 speed auto issue, it's not as slow as most people think. because of all the torque produced by the 3.1, a 3 speed auto Z24 is only about a half second slower than a 5 speed. A lack of torque will kill you with an automatic tranmission, but that's not a problem for us, making 185 ft-lbs @ 3200 RPM.

Now for some numbers. We've already seen shane's 15.9s time slip from a virtually stock 3 speed auto 3.1L Z24, but if you wanna base this on magazine times, that's not a problem. Road & Track magazine tested a 5 speed Mazda MP3, which is similar to the MP5 performance wise. They only managed to pull a 16.5 @ 83.8 MPH with a professional driver. To find a 3.1L Z24 road test, we have to go back to a 1990 issue of hot rod magazine, where they did a test comparing the 3.1L Cavalier Z24 and a 2.0L turbo Sunbird GT. The Z24 managed a 15.9, while the sunbird ran a 15.6.

Misnblu

Those are some optomistic numbers you have there.
Shanes car is a freak and is not representative of the breed just like some of the 3rd generation z24's running faster than others.
Not arguing your point 3.1, just letting ppl know that there are engines out there that are made to perfect specs to run as good as they run.
The other thing that confuses is the auto and stick issue. These tests and information you have here is from the stick or auto tranny cars??
The half second is pretty close to being correct as Ive witnessed this myself. With the autointerceptor on the 4t40e tranny, that 1/2 second is reduced to just a 1/4 second or closer.
Anyway, Im out of this thread as these Protege guys are probably tired of taking up their space and time.
Thanks for the warm welcome ppl, youll see me from time to time on these forums, if you dont mind.
I love all cars and hope for some happy, fast and good modding for you guys, its been fun and a great learning experience.
Misnblu

z243.1

The sunbird and cavalier in that test were both manual.

Installshield

first of all Road and Track do not use professional drivers on anything south of the major car shoot outs (such as the few that featured Mario Andretti). On a basic car test the editors of the magazine do all the testing. Also, mag numbers are what you can expect to run consistently, not the best possible time they could pull off. Most magazines will run 8 to 10 1/4 mile runs and take an average of the runs where they felt absolutely no mistakes where made.

I am not bashing cavaliers, but I do feel that the 3 speed auto transaxle severly limits that z24. With 3 gears you have extremely long gearing. The torque helps off the line but the torque curve slopes off as the car approaches its redline. I do not believe that the difference between a 3 speed auto and is only half a second off the 5speed.

Again I beat a stock 92 Z24 3.1L Auto "Stock for Stock" in a P5. At the track his car did not come close to breaking 17 seconds. I am not arguing that I could beat a 5 speed Z24.

Out of curiosity do you know the power output at the wheels? That is what counts and I would be suprised if a lot more power was not lost through that 3 speed than a Protege