pr5zoom

Found this today, might be old news, but the price is right. Thanks all for the info over the past few month,very helpful. First time post.

http://www.performancebuyers.com/cat...umbs=0&start=1

MackDaddy

Wow!

If these guys are legit, this is a killer price. I just picked mine up for $435 OTD, and thought that was a decent price.

Jim

shumax

I just picked one up for $345 too. How long did it take you to get it? I live near Columbus, Ohio.

Thanks!
Curt B. Shumaker

MackDaddy

I got mine from Jason (Advanced Imports.) Picked it up local.

Good luck,
Jim

shumax

How much was it? I just received a phone call and email from performancebuyers.com. They said that they have changed thier pricing and can't give it to me for less than $449. I told them that it truly isn't my problem that their site wasn't updated---in fact they switched it today.

What they don't realize (I think) is that it's bait and switch. If your site lists a price and someone places an order, you are obligated to fill that order. If the price was a mistake, then you fill the order and then correct the pricing. The consumer can't be liable for the faulty actions of the seller.

Don't get me wrong---I don't want him to go out of business. However, it's not my fault they made an error. I am waiting to see how they respond. If not, I might take them to small claims court----this is part of what I do for a living. It's a shame as I don't want to hurt the guy. However, I don't like being treated like that either.

Curt B. Shumaker


P.S. So how much did you pay for yours at Advanced?

MackDaddy

$435, and I picked it up (they're in Hilliard.)

I think Jason has a post somewhere selling them for $399.....

Good luck,
Jim

PS - I had a gut feeling that $345 price was pure bullshit.

Here's the post mentioned above http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/sho...threadid=17129

pollax

Technically it's not bait and switch. Bait and switch is when you offer a low price for an item and someone goes to buy it, it's out of stock and they offer you a 'better' item at a higher cost. It's hard to prove bait and switch since you have to prove they had an intent to decieve.

That is not true, a price is not a contract. When you go to buy something it's only a contract when the store accepts your payment. After you pay for something, there is no way the store can ask you to pay more. If they charged your credit card and called you to ask for more money, you can deny them and they still have to send you the goods. If they haven't charged you yet then they can definitely give you a different price.

shumax

Would you care to debate it with me in a court of law? It's not true bait in switch in the full sense. What they are doing is an example of false advertising. I have worked with companies like Kohls department stores who have been sued over false price advertising---even if it was a true accident. Companies who do this lose every time. It's part of the consumer protection department services, or even your local BBB. Not sure if you have that in Canada though?!

If you place a price on something and then receive a guarantee to purchase from a consumer (order), you are obligated to fullfill that contract(order) for that price. Just because there has been no exhange of money does not mean there is no contract. Honestly, there was an exchange of funds if you want to get technical. I gave them my credit card with the intent to be charged. They just didn't do it because they weren't open.

Again, just because no money changed hands does not mean there is no contract. One could argue that it's expressed which is true based on the confired receipt I had for my purchase price of $345. It certainly is also implied based on their website and past sales. I understand that the "past sale" argument is somehwat weak as retail outfits can change prices as a result of supply and demand as well as a list of other reasons. However, they aren't permited to do it in the middle of a sale and then expect their customer to "understand their pricing mistake."

The fact remains---the price was posted and I placed an order for which I have a confirmed receipt. It is not my fault the price was changed AFTER the confirmed receipt was prepared.

Curt B. Shumaker

MackDaddy

Curt,

I can understand your frustration, it's happened to me before. Don't loose any sleep over this, though. Just make a small road trip down to Hilliard to see Jason @ Avanced Imports. He'll sell you a new unit, in the box for what looks like $399. He won't charge you tax either. Super nice guy, and still a fair deal.

Just my .02

Good luck,
Jim

shumax

Give me his address and phone number please. I assume you paid $435 due to freight? You are right--I will drive down and get it for $35.


I won't lose any sleep, trust me Just think of this scenario:


You walk into Walmart and buy a pack of guy for an indicated price of $1.00. You walk up to the register with your $1 in your hand ready to go. The clerk says, "uh, sorry, the price has gone up to $2." You look at the package and it clearly says $1. At this point, some would back down and say, "forget it, I don't want it and stomp off." The semi-educated, yet more pissed off, would demand to see a manger who would then lower the price due to their error and desire to make the customer happy all while trying to avoid a "scene." Walmart knows---it costs more to generate new business then it does to keep it. Still others who know how the system/law works, will stay cool and explain to the employee that they can't do that. If the employee doesn't take care of it, you move to the manager. 9 times out of 10, a well trained manager will end it right there and move on. If not, you call the corporate office and they will send you 100 packs of gum just to shut you up. Again, a hit on their BBB account or a complaint to the consumer defense folks will certainly not be worth the loss they will take as a result for their mistake/improper business practices.


Ok, that example was long and my exhaust is worth more than $1. However, what this company stands to lose by giving it to me for what they said is about $80. If they don't, they could receive a hit on their BBB account, if they have one. They could have a complaint filed with their state attorney general and could be reported to the consumer defense folks. If I were really bored, I might pay the $20 and take them to small claims court.

Again, nothing in the above paragrapgh is meant as a threat; it's just a fact of what a persons rights are.

Ok---off to bed now

Curt B. Shumaker

pollax

Nice example but please point out the illegal part to me. Where has the store broken the law? What law was broken? If the price is printed on the item and it is different at the check out, you are not obligated to buy the item and the store is not obligated to sell you the item at the lower price. It maybe good buisiness practice to honour the lower price but there is no law saying the store must sell at the lower price. Once again a price is not a contract to sell you the item. To have a contract both parties must agree to the terms and conditions of the contract. If one party does not agree to the terms and condition then you have no contract.

You must remember that for there to be deceptive advertising, you have to look at the overall impression created by the ad -- not the technical truthfulness of the individual parts. What that means is if the site has been promoting an item at a low price, like posting around on different forums advertising that they have a low price for the item and they change the price after you order, then yes it is deceptive but if it is just listed then it really is not deceptive.

No, you still do not have a contract. Unless they accept your offer to buy then you do not have a contract!

That is true. But if they have not accepted your offer to buy then you have no contract!

Usually what they send you after you place your order is a confirmation of order. That means they have received your order. Your invoice or receipt usually comes with the item after it is shipped.

I will say it again, a price that is listed is not a contract. Unless there is an attempt to decieve the customer there is no law against changing prices.

MackDaddy

I'm now jumping off this thread.

Click the above link. His street address is posted on the website.

Jim

shumax

Me too.



Pollax---you are hung-up on this "illegal" part, aren't you? Let me make it easier for you to understand. He would lose in a court of law in the United States of America.

Simple enough for ya?

Thanks,
Curt B. Shumaker

pollax

illegal: Prohibited by law

How can he be guilty of something in a court of LAW if it is not illegal?

Obviously you have no logic and don't understand.

You are a stereotypical American, sue for aything and everything. Here's a tip, go spill come hot coffee in your lap, I hear you can get some big bucks out of it.

shumax

Oh, and a "Canook" like yourself is going to one up an "American?" Oh yea--lets start that pissing match Keep the argument professional/factual and don't drop to your knees and act like a 4 year old, pal.

I have a feeling that if you were taken advantage of over the price of something you, too, would be trying to rectify the situation so that everyone was properly treated. Taking this person to small claims court takes about 30min. of my time and a very nominal fee. Educate yourself before you speak.

You are the person who is misinformed. False advertising/misrepresentation of price is in fact illegal in the United States of America. I thought I made this claer for you, must not have as you continue to clutter the bandwidth of this forum telling me that it is not. This is a portion of what I have done for years as a living.

To sit here attempting to tell me what's legal and not legal about this topic proves your ignorance. You have no experience other than what you *think* is right and wrong.

Do me a favor, go to the library and pull out a book of the statuatory laws in the United States of Amercia. Read under personal and advertising injuries. If that confuses you, pull out any commercial CGL (commercial general liability) insurance policy. Go to the exclusions portion of coverage "B." About number 7-10 you will see an exclusion for false advertising/misrepresentation of price. It's in every ISO controlled CGL policy as an exclusion because it's something that retailers are sued for. Insurance policies don't cover intentional acts or misrepresentation of facts on the part of their insured.

So, not only will you find it in statutory law, but you will also find that under an ISO CGL insurance policy, this practice is excluded. So should someone not only sue for compensatory damages, they could sue the retailer for punitive damages. If the court system wanted to make an example out of him, they might fine him $1000 for doing it. There is no coverage under his insurance policy. Would this(punitive damage assignment) happen? I doubt it. Have I seen it happen? At least 1000 times.

My point to you is simple. Don't respond with non factual arguments. I understand your concern with clogging up the court systems. However, I don't think you know what it feels like to be bent over on pricing. Besides, I never said for a fact, we were going to court over it. If you are one of those who just accepts a false advertising offense, shame on you as the United States law isn't tollerant of such sloppy business practices.

I certainly hope that the 15min. I have invested here trying to educate you will help you to better understand why this is in fact an illegal practice that is also not covered by a CGL insurance policy in the US.

Good day!
Curt B. Shumaker