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Old February-20th-2003, 08:01 PM
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What do you think of this?

A boost for Saddam

By Jeff Jacoby, 2/20/2003




SOMETHING WAS missing from last weekend's vast wave of demonstrations against war in Iraq:


Iraqis.

Across Europe and the United States, 2 million or more protesters took to the streets to denounce the Bush administration's plans to disarm Saddam Hussein. The enormous crowds of demonstrators, news reports stressed, comprised all sorts of people - ''college students, middle-aged couples, families with small children, older people who had marched for civil rights, and groups representing labor, the environment, and religious, business, and civic organizations,'' as The New York Times put it.

An endless parade of speakers addressed the throngs, praising their antiwar message and denouncing George W. Bush and his allies. Among the speakers at the immense London march were the city's mayor, Ken Livingstone; the playwright Harold Pinter; Jesse Jackson; Bianca Jagger; and even a former minister in Tony Blair's Cabinet. In New York, the crowds heard from Bishop Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther King III, singers Pete Seeger and Richie Havens, and Hollywood celebrities Danny Glover and Susan Sarandon.

But where were the Iraqis? Where in this great chorus of antiwar passion were the voices of those for whom Iraq is not just a cause but a homeland? More than 4 million Iraqis have fled that homeland since Saddam came to power in 1979. Tens of thousands live in the United States, hundreds of thousands in Europe. Yet virtually none took part in the weekend's demonstrations. Don't they care about Iraq?

Of course they do. That is why they stayed away.

''I am so frustrated by the appalling views of most of the British people, media, and politicians,'' one Iraqi expatriate, a London neurologist named B. Khalaf, writes in The Guardian. ''I want to say to all these people who are against the possible war, that if you think ... you are serving the interests of Iraqi people or saving them, you are not. You are effectively saving Saddam. You are depriving the Iraqi people of probably their last real chance to get rid of him.''

Another Iraqi in exile, 19-year-old Rania Kashi, penned an open letter asking where the antiwar movement was during Saddam's war against Iran in the 1980s, which caused the death of 1 million Iraqis and Iranians. Or during his attack on the people of Halabja, when thousands of Iraqi Kurds were gassed to death.

''Saddam rules Iraq using fear; he regularly imprisons, executes, and tortures large numbers of people for no reason whatsoever,'' she wrote. ''Believe me, you will be hard-pressed to find a single family in Iraq which has not had a son/father/brother killed, imprisoned, tortured, and/or `disappeared' due to Saddam's regime. What then has been stopping you from taking to the streets to protest against such blatant crimes against humanity in the past?... I have attended the permanent rally against Saddam that has been held every Saturday in Trafalgar Square for the past five years. The Iraqi people have been protesting for years against the war - the war that Saddam has waged against them. Where have you been?''

If the suffering of Iraq's people meant anything to the protesters, such cries from the heart might have prompted twinges of shame, or at least some second thoughts. But there is little evidence that the antiwar campaign cares at all about those whom Saddam has hurt. Countless demonstrators carried signs reading ''Don't Attack Iraq,'' ''Not In My Name,'' and ''No Blood For Oil.'' Others toted posters defaming Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair - portraying them with swastikas or Hitler m ustaches, for example. For those who failed to grasp the point, a large sign in Rome spelled it out: ''Bush is the new Hitler.''

But nowhere to be seen were signs proclaiming ''Against war AND against Saddam'' or ''Saddam must disarm'' or ''Justice for Saddam's victims.'' There were no banners proclaiming Saddam the new Hitler. None of the speakers were Iraqi Kurds or Shiites or dissidents. None were survivors of Saddam's torture chambers or poison gas attacks.

It goes without saying that many of those in the crowds were well-meaning people who want only to prevent war. Undoubtedly they would bristle at being labeled pro-Saddam. But whatever might be in their hearts, they can be judged only by their actions - and by their actions last weekend they declared themselves pro-Saddam.

As they poured into the streets, as they clamored for peace at any price, as they denounced those who oppose the tyrant of Baghdad, as they counseled passivity in the face of his crimes, they strengthened one of the world's most vicious despots and complicated the task of those trying to bring him down. The demonstrations were a powerful boost for Saddam and a stinging betrayal of Iraq's afflicted people. That is why they were broadcast live on Iraqi television. And why millions of free Iraqis stayed away.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.

This story ran on page A15 of the Boston Globe on 2/20/2003.
© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.
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Old February-21st-2003, 10:28 AM
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YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN.... just don't double post! lol

OH SO TRUE.....If I had the authority.....your post should be read WORLD WIDE on every TV stations evening News.....it MIGHT make some of these morons open their eyes to reality.

WAR may not be THE answer.....but many times just the thread of it speeds up the process to a viable and more acceptable solution.
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Old February-21st-2003, 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Sir Nuke

OH SO TRUE.....If I had the authority.....your post should be read WORLD WIDE on every TV stations evening News.....it MIGHT make some of these morons open their eyes to reality.
Fortunately, you do not have any authority or power to force the world to subscribe to your beliefs, or to manipulate the media (Oddly, this sort of behaviour is what one would expect from, say, Saddam Hussein). And for all the social injustice of Iraq, there are numerous other countries in which the populace endures the same fate - some of which we have openly supported (including Iraq on through the '80's.)
Further, the original post is nothing more than an Op-Ed piece and thus is only a mirror of the writer's own agenda.
But thanks for joining in to label those of an opposing view as "Morons". Truly, I can see how much YOU care and respect people who differ from you. Given this attitude, I seriously doubt you have any concern for the Iraqi citizens. Those actually in Iraq now, may have a much different opinion to this War than those who are in exile. But then again, maybe they are just "morons", too!
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Old February-21st-2003, 11:55 AM
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What about the anti-Bush demonstrations in Iraq? They are a daily event and they are loaded w/ Iraqi citizens. You can be sure that if there is a war, innocent people will be killed, but considered "acceptable losses." To me, that is truly disgusting.
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Old February-21st-2003, 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by fossil boy

Fortunately, you do not have any authority or power to force the world to subscribe to your beliefs, or to manipulate the media (Oddly, this sort of behaviour is what one would expect from, say, Saddam Hussein).
Or maybe George Bush...



President Bush said one little thing that made me think:
"The risk of inaction is far greater than the risk of action."
IMO that's a scary, but true statement in this situation.
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Old February-21st-2003, 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Sir Nuke
.....it MIGHT make some of these morons open their eyes to reality.

Riiiiight..... so everyone that supports your view is okay, but everyone that doesn't is a moron hey? I thought you were past your adolecence.


There were huge protests in Iraq by Iraqis against Bush.

First thing that I noticed in that article is that they said 2 million people protested...... it's actually well over 5 million people.

I think that it's not right if someone uses Machiavellian theory of 'End justifies the means' but Sadam is getting voted and getting 98% votes at the elections, so he must not be a leader that 'tortures everyone'.

There are at least three times as many Yugoslavians out of Yugoslavia then Iraqis out of Iraq, and when there were demonstrations by Yugoslavians in different cities, there were usually a few hundreds of people here and there, and maybe a thousand or two somewhere. Do you think that they would get noticed in hundreds of thousands of people?

I think that the reporter should've gathered at least a thousand of those Iraqis and gave them a questionnaire 'Should there be war' 'Would you vote for Sadam' etc.
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Old February-21st-2003, 06:19 PM
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i'm not saying any of you are wrong in what you believe, but i do recomend looking at the situation from every angle before making judgement
That's interesting. I don't think anything you say has an objective tone to it. There's an obvious slant to everything you say.

I can't prove that the Iraqis weren't paid to protest. Can you prove that the Iraqis in the article at the beginning of this thread weren't paid to say what they did? Of course not. It's purely ridiculous to try to prove either.

And in regards to my point about innocents getting killed. I wasn't saying that the US was going in to JUST kill civilians. My point was that I can guarantee that the very people that Bush is trying to "save" are those that will be caught in the crossfire.

The soldiers that get sent to Iraq are sent there of their own volition. They know what they're in for (or at least they think they know). The civilians don't have anywhere to go...They live there. It's sad when anybody gets killed, but when "smart bombs" are dropped on "military" targets resulting in the deaths of children, something is wrong.

Oh, and don't forget that it was CANADIANS that had a couple of US pilots drop bombs on them in Afghanistan. If you can mistake friendly forces as enemies, how are you going to determine the civilians from the "enemy"?
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Old February-21st-2003, 06:40 PM
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Think about how strong we as a Country looks to the rest of the worlds Countries. There are alot of people with lots of "Face time" (actors) making us look weak to the rest of the world. Being in the military myself. I get very mad when I see/hear AMERICANS protesting and/or hear about it on the News. We as a country should support our President. Yes people are killed in war, its called collateral damge. Sometimes it neccessary to get a job done. Then other times is cause of bad Intell. We we join the military we have to sign a contract. In that contract is says For the Needs of The ........... (Navy in My case). You can be sent to do anything, anywhere. I myself am proud to be an American, and very proud to serve my country. Just my 2 cents, Not tring to froce my ideas on anyone
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Old February-21st-2003, 06:40 PM
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wow... I'm surprised canadians are still fuming over the deaths of those canadian soldiers who got bombed how can you expect anyone not to make mistakes? do you really think things are perfect?

as for the protesters, I say they are naive for being against the war... yeah war is bad... but they didn't account for the many different fucked up things happening in iraq.... just a large mass of cows they are
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Old February-21st-2003, 08:09 PM
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Wow Edwin...I don't really know what to say to that. I think you should talk to the families of the soldiers that got bombed. You'll notice that they are NOT suing anybody.

Are you suprised that people are also still upset about Sept.11th? Using your mentality, Americans should just get over that "event." Note that this is NOT how I feel...I'm simply making a point.

Last edited by Pro_fan; February-21st-2003 at 08:13 PM.
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Old February-21st-2003, 09:04 PM
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here's the problem... you THINK I'm american
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Old February-21st-2003, 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by TheMAN
here's the problem... you THINK I'm american
LoL. I know you have some sort of roots in The Great White North. I never said you were GI Joe.
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Old February-22nd-2003, 05:45 AM
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lol, actually saddam got 100% votes (yes I'm not kidding, in other words his election is a fraud).

I don't really know if it's true about protests in Iraq, I don't know anything about what the Iraqi people think about it actually (which is bad of me, I admit).

And I wouldn't HATE someone for being against a war...even if I disagree. To me being anti-war is not bizzare in any way, I can understand why people would want that. I just think that there are also a lot of uninformed people out there...I honestly try my best to try and understand things from every point of view... and I think Saddam does need to be removed from power in some fashion... If he has consistently gotten worse over the past 20 years, I don't think he's on a path to improvement. So far I haven't seen any alternatives to some military pressure... but NO I'd hate to see innocent people hurt.. and I would hate to call people "justifiable losses." But, it might be necessary

Also I just got this book Bias from the bookstore (I think it's a bestseller). It's about liberal bias in the media, I've read about 70 pages into it. After reading it hopefully I will have some more insight into news sources...and perhaps that might even sway my view. I'll see
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Old February-22nd-2003, 10:17 AM
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the u.s.a is full of it

i know alot of you gun ho u.s people are going to get pissed but give me 10 min and maybe you will think a little diffrent. i believe that our goverment was the ones who blew up the buildings on september 11 it is all to convienant that bush made it to power by cheating e has a vendetta to fight the middle east because his dad did **** over there we are the only country who has soilders in every other country we are the country with all the nukes we go to other countrys wars we stick are noses in the worlds business. korea we have kepy these poor people down for years why cause they believe in communisun and same with cuba . why do they dislike comunisum cause you would not have rich or poor everyone is equl the goverment gives the jobs you go out and work they provide homes and hospital visits and medicine for free you tell me how that is bad the goverment does not care if we go to war the have places to hide and stay in case of attack on a nuke orchem battle so were does this leave me and you well soon after the war begin and we loose some men they will open a draft so thousands of young people will die for what cause we are the only super power why what is the point gas prices will rise i think its all crazy and all started wit 911 because our gov could not make background checks they knew it was coming and did nothing to stop it i aplogize to all you war freaks out there but it nothing more than a waste of our time so please think of all of it if i came in to your house to search it would you comply or say no get out of here this is my house JUST THINK ABOUT IT
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Old February-22nd-2003, 10:34 AM
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A war that was brought to you? Are you forgetting that it was the US Government that basically put Saddam in power and provided him with weapons?
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