Oh well people were at war
March-24th-2003, 04:27 PM
#77
protege5.0
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 796
Originally posted by kc5zom
BTW... We managed to blow up a bus full of civilians today when they were, get this, DRIVING across a bridge (those bastards). Of course I heard that on NPR, there isn't a damn thing about it on CNN yet. But hey maybe they will catch up.
BTW... We managed to blow up a bus full of civilians today when they were, get this, DRIVING across a bridge (those bastards). Of course I heard that on NPR, there isn't a damn thing about it on CNN yet. But hey maybe they will catch up.
March-24th-2003, 04:37 PM
#78
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 17
Originally posted by kc5zom
Reminds me of that time you spouted off about economics there expert boy. Of course you are the mighty expert on all things to do with the Middle East. I just listen to NPR, watch Newshour most evenings, and read things other than CNN. Its called background, look into it.
BTW... We managed to blow up a bus full of civilians today when they were, get this, DRIVING across a bridge (those bastards). Of course I heard that on NPR, there isn't a damn thing about it on CNN yet. But hey maybe they will catch up.
Reminds me of that time you spouted off about economics there expert boy. Of course you are the mighty expert on all things to do with the Middle East. I just listen to NPR, watch Newshour most evenings, and read things other than CNN. Its called background, look into it.
BTW... We managed to blow up a bus full of civilians today when they were, get this, DRIVING across a bridge (those bastards). Of course I heard that on NPR, there isn't a damn thing about it on CNN yet. But hey maybe they will catch up.
**** happens. Especially if you're a dumbass in the middle of the war. They might not have chosen to be there, or the driver was the only one in control (naturally) and was therefore his idiocy to be crossing an obvious military target.. and the others were just along for the ride.. ACTUALLY its not necessarily idiocy, just ignorance of how wars go and whats likely to be hit - and sheer bad luck. I mean, thats a hell of a coincidence to pick to choose to cross the bridge right then. I mean, odds are things like that will happen eventually, just sucks that it was them who it happened to.
I don't think any of us can claim to be experts on war. HOWEVER - some people here are either plain stupid or intentionally turning a blind eye to whats preceded this. It is known he has terrorist ties, he does abuse his own populace, we're doing everyone in the world a favor, even the French (despite that their gas prices will go up to normal prices)..
March-24th-2003, 04:56 PM
#79
Bruce Leroy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 788
Originally posted by TheMAN
uhh... here in America you GET free health care if you're ******* broke... there's a difference between selective health care for people who truely need it and widespan health care for everyone including rich bastards... I rather have people who have a choice over what they want.. not what big brother decides for them... if they don't want health care (aka health insurance) then that's them... that's their problem if they get sick... if I want it, I pay for it and ensure the pool of money I paid benefits me and no one else
but we're getting off topic here
uhh... here in America you GET free health care if you're ******* broke... there's a difference between selective health care for people who truely need it and widespan health care for everyone including rich bastards... I rather have people who have a choice over what they want.. not what big brother decides for them... if they don't want health care (aka health insurance) then that's them... that's their problem if they get sick... if I want it, I pay for it and ensure the pool of money I paid benefits me and no one else
but we're getting off topic here
March-24th-2003, 05:04 PM
#80
Salt addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Falls Ont.
Posts: 1,201
Originally posted by TheMAN
people who don't want war, poverty, utopia, etc are idealists
sorry, nothing is perfect... it's GOOD to try to eliminate the bad things, but we're chasing our own tails
I'll stick to reality, thank you
people who don't want war, poverty, utopia, etc are idealists
sorry, nothing is perfect... it's GOOD to try to eliminate the bad things, but we're chasing our own tails
I'll stick to reality, thank you
I don't want war any more than most other people do. I think this war is pointless, but I'm too goddam lazy and self centred to do anything about it, so I just accept the fact that there is a war and get on with my own life.
March-24th-2003, 05:47 PM
#81
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 51
That bus that was hit was near the Syria-Iraq border...not excacly an area where there is heavy fighting. It was air to surface missle which are usually quite precise.
Obviously not enough care was taken to make sure this was a legitimate military target. It was a bunch of Syrian civilians trying to flee Iraq.
Obviously not enough care was taken to make sure this was a legitimate military target. It was a bunch of Syrian civilians trying to flee Iraq.
March-24th-2003, 06:47 PM
#82
Salt addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Niagara Falls Ont.
Posts: 1,201
Originally posted by browntrout
That bus that was hit was near the Syria-Iraq border...not excacly an area where there is heavy fighting. It was air to surface missle which are usually quite precise.
Obviously not enough care was taken to make sure this was a legitimate military target. It was a bunch of Syrian civilians trying to flee Iraq.
That bus that was hit was near the Syria-Iraq border...not excacly an area where there is heavy fighting. It was air to surface missle which are usually quite precise.
Obviously not enough care was taken to make sure this was a legitimate military target. It was a bunch of Syrian civilians trying to flee Iraq.
March-24th-2003, 07:20 PM
#83
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
Originally posted by TheMAN
people who don't want war, poverty, utopia, etc are idealists
sorry, nothing is perfect... it's GOOD to try to eliminate the bad things, but we're chasing our own tails
I'll stick to reality, thank you
people who don't want war, poverty, utopia, etc are idealists
sorry, nothing is perfect... it's GOOD to try to eliminate the bad things, but we're chasing our own tails
I'll stick to reality, thank you
I don't really know why you included Utopia in there? Being the ideal perfect world I'm pretty sure that an idealist would want that.
March-24th-2003, 07:25 PM
#84
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
Originally posted by BioSehnsucht
It is known he has terrorist ties
It is known he has terrorist ties
He's a bad guy but there are dozens more after him. Nice that one of the weakest of them was targeted, one that Bin Laden basically hates (although if he is alive I bet he is having a party right now watching this BS). We would have better terrorist fighting returns if we made our good buddies, the Saudies, stop funding them.
March-24th-2003, 07:56 PM
#85
formerly chastan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,350
Originally posted by BioSehnsucht
That's nice. I'm sure we aimed for that bus too. They should be staying away from obvious targets (assuming of course that the Iraqi military / gov't will let them). It's not like we can call off a cruise missile strike when minutes after launching the missile a bus drives onto the bridge, and I'm sure we had satellite coverage of that exact spot at that instante with a human watching it to therefore be able to inform the cruise missile operators to abort the strike.
**** happens. Especially if you're a dumbass in the middle of the war. They might not have chosen to be there, or the driver was the only one in control (naturally) and was therefore his idiocy to be crossing an obvious military target.. and the others were just along for the ride.. ACTUALLY its not necessarily idiocy, just ignorance of how wars go and whats likely to be hit - and sheer bad luck. I mean, thats a hell of a coincidence to pick to choose to cross the bridge right then. I mean, odds are things like that will happen eventually, just sucks that it was them who it happened to.
I don't think any of us can claim to be experts on war. HOWEVER - some people here are either plain stupid or intentionally turning a blind eye to whats preceded this. It is known he has terrorist ties, he does abuse his own populace, we're doing everyone in the world a favor, even the French (despite that their gas prices will go up to normal prices)..
That's nice. I'm sure we aimed for that bus too. They should be staying away from obvious targets (assuming of course that the Iraqi military / gov't will let them). It's not like we can call off a cruise missile strike when minutes after launching the missile a bus drives onto the bridge, and I'm sure we had satellite coverage of that exact spot at that instante with a human watching it to therefore be able to inform the cruise missile operators to abort the strike.
**** happens. Especially if you're a dumbass in the middle of the war. They might not have chosen to be there, or the driver was the only one in control (naturally) and was therefore his idiocy to be crossing an obvious military target.. and the others were just along for the ride.. ACTUALLY its not necessarily idiocy, just ignorance of how wars go and whats likely to be hit - and sheer bad luck. I mean, thats a hell of a coincidence to pick to choose to cross the bridge right then. I mean, odds are things like that will happen eventually, just sucks that it was them who it happened to.
I don't think any of us can claim to be experts on war. HOWEVER - some people here are either plain stupid or intentionally turning a blind eye to whats preceded this. It is known he has terrorist ties, he does abuse his own populace, we're doing everyone in the world a favor, even the French (despite that their gas prices will go up to normal prices)..
Anyways to build on what theMan said a little bit...I think a lot of the politics involved here...are pragmastism vs idealism...
March-24th-2003, 09:11 PM
#86
Likwidated
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
Posts: 2,159
Originally posted by JasonKilpa
Nooo terrorism isn't in Iraq. Go ask the human shields that were just there. Ask them what they saw. The plastic or human shredding machines.
Nooo terrorism isn't in Iraq. Go ask the human shields that were just there. Ask them what they saw. The plastic or human shredding machines.
Or how about the Al Qaeda camp that they found in Southern Iraq.
Is there going to be a backlash of terrorism because of we are doing this. Well we haven't seen any yet.
Doesn't mean it won't happen but I bet some are starting to think twice. The Iraqi people are welcoming our soldiers with open arms.
Doesn't look like all are mad. Guess it is only the people with financial interest in Iraq that are upset about this. Russia was found to have sold weapons this past weekend to Iraq. France is all about their oil contracts. Turkey is about the oil. Germany is about the oil. The coalition, which by the way is larger then the one in the Gulf war, is tired of Iraq's threat and we are not going to take it anymore. [/B]
March-24th-2003, 09:54 PM
#87
Likwidated
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
Posts: 2,159
Originally posted by BioSehnsucht
That doesn't mean he needs anthrax and other weapons of mass destruction.
That doesn't mean he needs anthrax and other weapons of mass destruction.
Oh wait, there isn't, so the US better get some missiles there and paint them with Iraqi flags to justify the war. Why were the UN inspectors there? What did they conclude?
riiiiight.. BTW, you do have access to international news if you have satellite.. go watch the international news channel or CNN international or etc, they say all the same stuff (just with different noticible slants .. the truth is still there, but every newscaster tries to slant it a different way)
News are similar with the exception that US networks put an image on with a US soldier helping a young child to start off the show and then gets the war hawks (ret.) to analyze the situation and give their views.
We aren't bombing civilians,
altho I'm sure they're scared shitless after that display we've put on.
The civilians have NO reason to TRUELY like Saddam, unless they've been brainwashed by the dictatorship, in which case they are likely a lost cause, as they'll never have the impetus to use free will and will therefore have no use of it.
Furthmore, depleted uranium, being depleted, is hardly likely to have enough radiation to harm anyone, unless their kids are trying to eat the A-10 Thunderbolt II's main gun's spent rounds.. which would be mostly in wrecked tanks, not someplace to be playing around.
Type in Gulf War Syndrome and read up on it.
More than likely either A: the Iraqi gov't faked it or B: (more likely) they intentionall put civilians in military/gov't structures that were sure to be bombed. Hell, our behind enemy lines recon units reported seeing women and children being forced into Iraqi military positions to be used as human shields..
Tool, the don't you remember oil for food? I mean REALLY.. they have PLENTY of OIL.. they can trade it for PLENTY of FOOD..
unless someone *cough* Saddam *cough* spends the money on things like weapons R&D, and trying to import super high quality aluminum tubes whose usefulness is limited to producing weapons grade nuclear materials..
The Gulf War wasn't a mistake, it was unfinished. What, you think we should have sat back and let Saddam run in and knock of Kuwait?
Sure, many conflicts have occured with limited (or really, no) success, such as 'Nam and Korea.. but that was mainly because we lacked the ***** (and had the brains) politically to take it to a victory - granted those two for example would never have had a chance at victory, and were a waste of time.
OK, so just because he's missing a few thousand litres of anthrax (WHICH HE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO BEGIN WITH), and has evidence of working on many other things, he's no threat to anyone and we should peacefully go in circles while he continues to deceive us (or rather, the U.N.).
I mean its obvious he's been lying for years, why the **** should we trust anything he says?
His people have been paying for years. The environment paid when he let loose an oil spill many times greater than Valdez, and set many oil fields ablaze.. he tried to set some ablaze again this time, altho he didn't get as many going, still massive crimes against the environment. And hell, with current technology setting oil fires doing stop any of our **** from firing / seeing through.
His people have been paying for years. The environment paid when he let loose an oil spill many times greater than Valdez, and set many oil fields ablaze.. he tried to set some ablaze again this time, altho he didn't get as many going, still massive crimes against the environment. And hell, with current technology setting oil fires doing stop any of our **** from firing / seeing through.
Don't forget anyone harboring terrorists is supporting terrorism and indirectly harming others.
Saddam isn't cooperating with the U.N. either, and the U.N. is invalidating its worth by rolling over and not doing anything. I mean it said there would be consequences, then they said, nah, on second time, you can have some more time.. oh, and a little more.. and oh hell, have some more time.
It's not like the Inspectors give a **** if they find anything. They're INSPECTING, checking what they see in front. THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN LEADS BY A PREVIOUS INSPECTOR WHO HAD CONNECTIONS IN IRAQ AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO CHECK!! I mean what the ****? They don't want to find anything, just check whats under their noses. And then couch all their comments to mean as little as possible, and leave things our of the oral report that are important and let them stay buried in the big huge printed document.
It's not like the Inspectors give a **** if they find anything. They're INSPECTING, checking what they see in front. THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN LEADS BY A PREVIOUS INSPECTOR WHO HAD CONNECTIONS IN IRAQ AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO CHECK!! I mean what the ****? They don't want to find anything, just check whats under their noses. And then couch all their comments to mean as little as possible, and leave things our of the oral report that are important and let them stay buried in the big huge printed document.
DOES IT MATTER WHAT KIND OF MISSILE IT IS? THEY FIRED MISSILES INTO KUWAIT.
What if it had biological chemical warheads?
Hey, what if I had a Ferrari F50.... I wouldn't be arguing here with you.....
They didn't, but that doesn't mean they might not have. Of course using any would immedately get the rest of the world behind us and we'd have no opposition in the U.N. And yes, they were first mis-reported as scuds.. but people are human, and there hadn't been time to actual ID them when the first reports were being made, it was just assumed by all parties involved (including the media).
These are called bribes. They're offering oil at lower than what Iraq could make any money at, merely so that these governments won't try to stop Iraq from doing whatever it wants. And hey, since they supporting Iraq, they're also supporting terrorism indirectly. Altho, it could easily be argued that prior to Collin Powell's Feb. speech they had no clue.
.....
Of course the US does it for economic purpose. But they also do it to stop a government that harbors terrorists, and to protect its neighbors (whether they want it or not). As for whether or not we take their oil... I would doubt it would be that black and white. More likely, assuming of course that we do what we said, we'll be setting up the Iraqi oil industry to operate like a normal one, and they'll set their own prices along with good ol' OPEC.. and even if we try to structure it to our advantage, it'd never work out anyways hahaha...
...
I don't remember the exact details, but we have evidence tying Al Queada to other terrorists organizations & etc, INCLUDING THE ******* TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP IN NORTHERN IRAQ THAT SADDAM SET ASIDE SPACE FOR.
.....
Of course the US does it for economic purpose. But they also do it to stop a government that harbors terrorists, and to protect its neighbors (whether they want it or not). As for whether or not we take their oil... I would doubt it would be that black and white. More likely, assuming of course that we do what we said, we'll be setting up the Iraqi oil industry to operate like a normal one, and they'll set their own prices along with good ol' OPEC.. and even if we try to structure it to our advantage, it'd never work out anyways hahaha...
...
I don't remember the exact details, but we have evidence tying Al Queada to other terrorists organizations & etc, INCLUDING THE ******* TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP IN NORTHERN IRAQ THAT SADDAM SET ASIDE SPACE FOR.
For your info, Northern Iraq is Kurdistan. They're against Saddam. There wouldn't be a terrorist training camp there.
Oh yeah, Northern Iraq is also under supervision by the British and US troops and has been for years now.
March-24th-2003, 09:57 PM
#88
Likwidated
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
Posts: 2,159
Not to mention the fact that terrorists have been known to walk around in broad daylight in Baghdad and even meet with Saddam & etc.
Al Queada doesn't need to like someone to use them. and Saddam would be more than happy to not worry about being a target by helping them out. They didn't TRY to make the link, they HAVE. Back in Feb.. you remember that big Collin Powell speech at the U.N.? If you'd actually seen that you'd have a clue as to WTF is going on w/ Saddam & etc.. (hrm, I wonder now if I can find that for download someplace as reference.. not right now tho)
Well I don't know about Switzerland but from what I've heard from people who actually lived in Canada, **** can be fucked up in ways there that it isn't here.
I'd rather be here. Apparently their healthcare is teh suck...
thanks for bringing that one up.
of course I don't live there, but Canada is stupid (har har) in ways that the U.S. isn't. (I would like to be able to import and legalize cars as easily tho.. ha)
March-24th-2003, 10:07 PM
#89
Likwidated
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
Posts: 2,159
Originally posted by Shawn
Makaveli: You seem to have a very closed-minded opinion. It's simply cheering for no-war rather than war.
Makaveli: You seem to have a very closed-minded opinion. It's simply cheering for no-war rather than war.
Shawn, can you please fill me in if I missed out on something?
Thanks.
If you truely believe some of the things you've said, which others have already rebutted, I feel bad for you .
.
Iraq is very much involved with Terrorism. Both in supporting groups that attack Isreal and the USA, and in committing their own attrocities and striking terror in their own people. THe people of Iraq live in constant fear of their own government. Fear for their lives and the lives of their families. Is that not terrorism?
If the coalition forces manage to oust the Iraqi government, they will try to replace it with a more democratic one. You seem to think this is horrible.
How do you figure? You moved to Canada from former Yugoslavia didn't you? Do you prefer the democratic government and structure of Canada over what you had in former Yugoslavia?
You also seem to be putting words in my mouth. I never said that I am against democracy Shawn.
IMHO, a democratic govenment is millions of times better than a tyranny that rules with an iron fist. Saddam is not better than Hitler, Stalin, Miloslovec, etc... [/B]
March-24th-2003, 10:16 PM
#90
Likwidated
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
Posts: 2,159
All right,. I just spent 30 minutes debating with some of you. I intend on staying away from this topic from now on as I've heard all there is to hear from both sides of the fence.
To those such as Shawn that have called me 'close-minded', thanks
I guess I'll be too close minded from now on to argue more about stupid stuff that won't do anything.
My final remark is that in no war is there a 'right' and 'wrong' but remember that it's the winners that always write the history.
PS. if you can watch CBC instead of CNN.
To those such as Shawn that have called me 'close-minded', thanks
I guess I'll be too close minded from now on to argue more about stupid stuff that won't do anything.My final remark is that in no war is there a 'right' and 'wrong' but remember that it's the winners that always write the history.
PS. if you can watch CBC instead of CNN.