boricua

I was wondering if anyone knew of a hybrid that Mazda will make or is in the process of making. I'm reading all these articles on how many companies are now switching to this technology and i just wanted to know when Mazda would cause i definately would buy one.
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Glass pipe pictures

MarkSpark

They certainly should!

ProtegeMaster

Although I'm strongly in favor of more efficient vehicles, I'm a bit skeptical about hybrid types. Although it's stepping in the absolute right direction, the ultimate goal here should be Zero emission vehicles. Given that hybrids still use dirty-*** internal combustion, they're still problematic, and beyond that, hybrid vehicles lack the horsepower of current engine standards. Yes, they’re more efficient and responsible (which I respect), but they’re also slow and unresponsive. Cruising around with the power of a 1 litre engine!? Dude, that sucks!

I want a exclusively powered fuel cell electric car that sports power, long range, and efficiency all in one. And, dudes, believe me, an electric car can kick the *** of most gasoline powered cars. And there will be continued improvements to electric that make them faster than any gasoline car.

Anyone ever seen this?

And check out a few videos.

I know there’s a lot that we’ll be losing, at least in terms of traditional engine sounds and the like, but this is where we’re headed, everyone. Electric sports cars that jet us around faster than ever before. With no point of use pollution.

THIS is the car I’m talking about! Not hybrid!

ProtegeMaster

Hydrogen could be used in internal combustion engines, but I doubt it will ever come to be used in a production rotary engine, or any other, for that matter. ICE's are just too inefficient, and the best we'll ever see is maybe around 30% efficiency (that is, 30% of the energy in the fuel is actually used to move the vehicle; the rest is totally lost). Fuel cells that power electric motors, on the other hand, are MUCH more efficient, and I pretty much guarantee that's how our hydrogen based vehicles will be operating.

Basides the energy efficiency, ICE's are way too messy and archaic. Mass moving parts, the need for all of that crappy lubrication to protect those parts, cooling systems, gear/belt assemblies... ****, when electric comes into full swing people will wonder how we ever got around in such unnecessarily complicated, ancient technology. As advanced as our current gasoline/diesel engines have become, the bottom line is they still use fire to move us around; the oldest human used property in the book. It's like we're in the Dark Ages, or something.

And besides the mess associated with internal combustion engines, if you burn hydrogen you get water vapor as a waste product. Given that, I'd predict corrosion, corrosion, corrosion in your engine after only a short period of time.

So no, we'll never actually burn hydrogen in a piston/rotary driven engine. Too old fasioned and trouble prone! It'll be electric coil motors that jet us around, powered by electricity producing fuel cells.

boricua

well, thanks for the input. it was pretty interesting. Mazda should definitely get these alternate powered vehicles in motion.
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Gabriellaxx

ProtegeMaster

I'm by no means an expert, but have been interested in fuel cell/hydrogen technology for a long time. As most of us probably know, we're a fossil fuel based/dependent society right now. The difficult thing about that is, beyond the fact that it isn't a clean fuel, it's finite, meaning it isn't renewable and WILL run out some day. Our technology to find oil continues to improve so the time when it's gone continues to be bumped ahead of previous predictions, but one day we'll well and true run out.

I've surmised that most of us here on the forum are somewhat younger folks, and there's a good chance that, based thereon, near the end of our natural lifetimes our society will have begun the shift to one based entirely on hydrogen; maybe even completed the shift all together. It could even happen sooner than that, I imagine.

The great thing about hydrogen is the enormous energy released when it's combined with oxygen. The other great thing is its vast, renewable availability. I mean, check it out! We've got an entire ocean of the stuff-- And when we "burn" it it simply yields water vapor again. It's a complete cycle that's really quite beautiful-- I'm not wishing to be too melodramatic, but it's really cool when you think about it.

The only thing we need to do is solve the problem of separating hydrogen from water, which itself takes energy to do in the first place. Once we figure that out, we're all going to be jamming around in fast-*** cars that serve no pollution and are more efficient than any vehicle human kind has ever had.

Heheh, the other weird thing to consider is we'll be going to Radio Shack when we want to mod our cars...

boricua

I agree with you 100% Protegemaster. I myself am actually studying Environmental Science so this technology has intrigued me for some while. But definitly we as humans should resort to 0 pollution vehicle technology.
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Wiki Vaporizer

fossil boy

Great thread! Fuel Cells will be the way to go!!! (GM currently testing stand-alone fuel cells for home power!!!)

As we near war w/ Iraq (For oil Reserves, don't let the politcos tell you otherwise), we all need to re-examine our dependence on fossil fuels, along with considering the documented asundry problems associated with their use.

As ProtegeMaster astutely said, hybrids do kinda suck, BUT, Fuel Cells are still in the future - hybrids are now! Certainly for Fleet services, Gov't vehicles, etc., we should do as much as possible to reduce consumption/pollution - hybrids ought to be required for such fleets. (there's already a $2K tax-deduction for individuals)

Yes and you're right P-master, most of the folks here are kinda young and never had the pleasure of the grossly over-powered V-8 American metal of the 60's (Damn, I miss my 'stang), but time moves on - hopefully our technology will budge with it...

And me - I am a Geology geek, and thus vastly consumed, both professionally and personally, by environmental issues

ProtegeMaster

Most excellent, Fossil Boy!

I'm faculty at the U of O and specialize in Computer Science, but have harbored a deep, lifelong fascination in Geological Science; Volcanology to be specific. I tell you, upon retirement (which is a long way off yet) it’s my intention to go back to school and follow my childhood bliss in learning more about the Geo Sciences. And I beg to differ! I haven’t met a Geologist who isn’t actually cool (as in, not a geek)! Us Computer Science guys, maybe, but not a Geologist! Rocks kick ***!

And here’s another memory for those who weren’t there: Mass line ups at fueling stations in the 1970’s during the energy crisis. I was pretty young then, but I remember it, and it didn’t represent a happy, independent time. To the contrary, it was a serious problem, the root of which was set in fossil fuel dependence.

Inasmuch as we might lose in making the transition (perhaps loving the sound of an internal combustion engine, working on them, etc.), in my opinion we can’t move on to clean, hydrogen based transportation soon enough-- Whether anyone likes it or not, we *have* to make this move, and a more promising technology in hydrogen I have not seen. I think we can consider ourselves lucky to be born into a time wrought in revolutionary transition: The Internet Age, cracking the secrets and curses of Cancer, human gene sequencing, the total transition of human society to hydrogen based energy, etc.. Exciting stuff!

Now if only we had leaders (in the U.S., at least) who didn’t look backwards instead of forward. In my opinion we devote far to many resources to sustaining old-***, antiquated energy supplies (fueled by equally antiquated mentality and/or lack thereof), and far too little on what is clearly our inevitable energy future. Yee haw-- Nothing like going to war in the name of oil! People in the future will look upon this venture with disgust-- Going into sustained armed conflict over a greasy, scummy mass of crap stuffed in the ground. It staggers the logical, forward thinking imagination, doesn't it?

But I digress, again. Hydrogen, baby!! Woo hooo!

boricua

Well said you guys, well said indeed. Like i said before i agree with you guys 100%. We need to move on in terms of technology.
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Iolite vaporizer butane

fossil boy

Do it, man! No one's born w/ a rock hammer in their hand! I did Commerical/News TV production for some time until I decided upon a different life...
Computer & Science go hand in hand - unfortunately, many scientists lack the computer skills necessary for them to fulfill their imagination. And most computer programs are too far removed from the scientists to be intuitively useful.
The world of volcanology (and petrology) rely upon models - it is a very intimate connection! You would be valuable, and likely, successful...

Your geo-eco-viewpoints, as w/ boricua's, are IMO, correct. Forward-thinking needs to be be put to use, even if it isn't heeded, YET!

mnkyboy

Thats a pretty cool car.

Bomber

The bigest thing hindering the development of 'enviro-vehicles' is the big oil companies.
Do you think that they would let a small business take away something that makes them billions of dollars a year? I think until government stops getting kickbacks from the oil companies the best we could look forward to is a hybrid vehicle.

1st MP3 in NH

My problems with hybrids and especialy electric cars is you swap out the disadvange of air pollution from bunt gas for the disadvantage of fuel and battery cells that contain far more deadly chemicals, especialy when these cars star getting old and there cells leak into water sheds. I have always been in favor of porsuing cleaner burning chemicals not hoaky electrical cells. plus if we can get ethanol going as a good fuel then the US will be the major source offuel for the world. Form my research ethenol is most abondant from decaying corn and other food products. Would also be a much better use of the food farmers are paid not to grow, god I hate that, and the food the the Govenment just has to burn.

1st MP3 in NH

One fundamental flaw in this theory. If a different fuel soure was proffitable they would jump on it in a heart beat. Hell they would beat each other to death trying to get patents out. Imagine how rich a company that owned a patent for refining ethenol would be. Why would a company stop another company from getting rich off of an idea and not try to get rich off of it temselves.Oil companies do work on these things but it hasn't proved profitable yet. They would have to make sure the fuel could be run by most cars, this is in the hands of auto makers not oil companies and that they could produce the fuel for around the same price or cheaper then oil with an abundant supply.

So if you want to help the world discover a way to run the internal cumbustion engine with a more abundant, cheaper and cleaner fuel and you will be a very rich person and just make sure you patent it first and don't sell it off. And when you do call me I want in!