Danger: Tirade: Another Example Of Poor Mazda Engines
 

I've never hidden my disdain for Mazda engines. The rotary notwithstanding (which has no other to compare to, anyway), Mazda has continually lagged behind the best Japanese auto makers in engine efficiency, quietness, and power for years and years and years. Very irritating.

Another case in point being: I just bought a 1990 Geo Prizm GSi that I'll be using for about a year and a half while I save up enough for a new Honda Accord. My Prizm is a clone of the Toyota Corolla, and this car is equipped with the 4A-GE engine. It's a 1.6 liter engine, yet it yields 130 HP, equal to what the FS-DE barfs out. And I've been getting 36 MPG on the highway in my new (old) car... And it's nearly 15 YEARS OLD (having been built in October of 1989). Protege has never delivered anything better than 31, ever. And oh yeah, my Prizm has 108,000 miles on it, also.

I appreciate anyone who enjoys their cars, even if it's a Mazda (which I've obviously not been happy with), but I've been right about their engines from day one and have resented being chastised for simply telling the truth.

I maintain Mazda engines are good, but they're not the best, and they continue to lag behind the leading Japanese auto makers today; even with the MZR's...

That sucks, and that's among the reasons why I'm leaving Mazda, as I'll not settle for anything less than the best, ever.

Dang it. If only there was a car with Mazda exterior appearance, VW interior design, Honda engine smoothness and efficiency, and Toyota quality/reliability. THAT'S what I'd call a car.

$&^#^!!

*%%**$!!

Point well taken, but the EPA has done some dastardly things in the last 15 years. It's getting tougher and tougher to build a cheap, powerful clean running engine.
I do agree that Mazda's engineers could step it up a bit to compete with most other car makers. Subaru, Mitsubishi, even Dodge all have quick, relitavely cheap cars for sale...none corner like the MSP though! ;)

I agree with you. Mazda engines are loud. My engine is loud, and the tires add even more to it. So I will save up money, and improve sound insulation in my car.
Its mostly engineering and the choices engineers make. They alsways have to give up something in order to achieve what the bosses want. I guess they chose to give up our comfort over their money.

mazda will never meet the power made by honda. i know most of u hate honda but lets look at the stats-
honda 2.0=230 hp
mazda 2.0=130hp

honda 1.8=180 hp
mazda1.8=125 hp

even with turbos mazdas power just barley equals hondas power n/a

Another Example
 

I quite agree that the EPA has probably made things more difficult for automotive engineers in these recent times (which I'm still in favor of since pollution is a serious issue), but Mazda or anyone else can't use that as an excuse. Toyota's under the same constraints as Mazda, yet their 1ZZ-FE engine in the current generation Corolla is a 1.8 liter that delivers the same HP as the Protege-- And the Corolla engine is still an ultra-low-emissions design that delivers 40 or above MPG!

I mean, dude! In my opinion Mazda sat on their dumb asses for too long as the rest of the large scale Japanese auto industry made real progress in engine design. Now they might never catch up until we all switch to electric coil motors powered by fuel cells, and then these cheesy internal combustion engines won't matter anymore, anyway.

I drive my Prizm and then drive my Protege, and the difference in engine sound is grating-- The ~15 year old 4AGE just sounds smoother, and I find that revoltingly offensive coming from a car that's 11 years NEWER.

Someone over at Mazda needs to be slapped across the face. And I'll be the first in line...

Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I've already spent $1000 on sound proofing for my ES-- I personally took apart the entire interior down to bare metal and lined it with 2 layers of Brown Bread, and on top of that a single layer of Lcomp , and it didn't make that much of a difference. The car is still noisy. (But that's another issue all together-- The Prizm is also noisy, I freely admit, but at least I'm getting closer to 40 on the highway while enduring it)

Well, its not even about the horsepower numbers. Honda and Toyota engines are simply more efficient than Mazda in all categories: power, mileage, durability. What esle can you ask for in the engine? Its just Mazda is too little compared to Honda and even Toyota, whose pockets are deep enough to engineer what ever they want.

dont forget about nissans. 300 zx twinturbos with 240k miles on them still goin

Yamaha 3.0L V6 (1989) 220hp 240lb/ft
Mazda6s3.0L V6(2003) 220hp 195lb/ft

p.s. same block and almost identical head!

Order Of Excellence
 

In my opinion the quality/performance of engine technology goes as follows:

1. Honda - The 4-cylinder K24 (K2A4?) in the latest Accord is said to rival some V6's in smoothness! It puts out 160 HP and delivers high 30's fuel economy on the highway. That's just fantastic for a mid-size car in that weight range. I really admire that, personally.
2. Toyota - Their engines are very, very close to Honda's in smoothness, from my understanding. It might be a virtual tie. I do think their engines are more reliable in the long run over Honda, though.
3. Nissan - Nissan's engines are smooth and reasonably efficient, and they put out admirable power. I used to own a '91 Sentra equipped with the 1.6 liter GA16DE-- 110 HP and I consistently achieved 42 MPG on the road. It ran smooth and quiet, also-- Better than my Protege that has a 10 year newer engine...

Just so I don't come across as totally negative, I'd have to say that I'd rather have a Mazda engine than I would, say, a GM, Ford, or Dodge 4-cylinder. While they may produce more power, they're proven less reliable, and certainly more noisy and primitive sounding. But that's American small engine design, for you... (It's also why Ford gave up on trying to build their own 4 banger and let Mazda do it for them). I mean, that's all we'd need is another 1.9 liter 4-cylinder engine from Ford like they used to shove into the Escort. Geeze...:rolleyes:

Ever look into the ford 2.3L OHC motor....probably one of the best overall designs EVER. Can hold unlimited boost and depending on trim can make anywhere from 35+mpg to 3mpg. I've done both! My little 2.3L sees over 26psi from a T3/T4...on the stock bottom end. Would you do that on a honda? Also, the stock ECU...fuel sysem had to be upgraded but stock ECU and ignition.

I'd Go Japanese
 

Are you talking about the 2.3 from the Pinto? Classic...

Modded, I'd expect any engine to perform with aplomb, and while I in honesty wouldn't pretend to be the ultimate engine authority, you can almost certainly bet there are mad Honda engine modifications that rival a Pinto from 1977. But that’s talking about straight power-- I’ve mostly been speaking to all around performance; striking the best balance between all characteristics.

I'm totally not dissing your Ford, I just wouldn't personally want a Ford 4 banger in any car I drive-- I seriously doubt they could ever match or beat the smooth, quiet, efficient, reliable operation of a Honda engine-- Especially one that isn’t fuel injected like those old 2.3’s, as ‘forced airable’ as they might be…

Anyway, no offense intended!

Edit: Ah! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I reread and noted "ECU" on your last post. I am not familiar with what you speak of, in that case, given that it must be FI. I DO know about the 1.9 liter Ford engine in my girlfriend's '95 Escort though. <shudders with nausea> :p

Edit 2: Okay, hold on-- It must be the 2.3 in the Focus? If so, Focus has presented with among the worst reliability records in current times, and it's only recently improved to "Average". As such, it doesn't meet my all around demands (same as Mazda does not—As in, Mazda engines are generally reliable but lack performance; and on the same token this Ford engine might provide good performance but lacks reliability).

mazda is way better then ford thats why u always see the 1.9(ford) to 1.8(mazda) motor swap on escorts

hmm....the FS-DE is hardly a new engine design. Mazda has been using this F-series block for over 20 years, so to expect it to rival newer Toyota and Honda engines is expecting too much...and to compare the 240 hp Honda engine to a miata engine is apples to oranges. in general honda engines are efficient, but lack torque. No, mazda is not the top dog in efficiency and power, but usually power isnt first on the list. take note that Mazda cars in comparison to competition wipe the floor with them when it comes to handling. compare...mazda protege to anything in its class. RX-8 to 350z. Mazda 6 to Accord,Camry,Taurus...the Mazda is always a better handling car. And Mazda's engines are always amongst the top in reliability

first off every accord ive ever rid in or driven were better then the two 6's i drove and come on a rx8 to a 350 z the 350 is way better
and then protege vs. teg=teg wins
so i dont relly think the mazda is better then most cars in their class

I think you should re read my post. I said in handling. the 350Z doesnt even come close to the RX-8 in that category. This has already been proven in every comparison test done. An Integra will out accelerate a protege, but not outhandle it. Again the 6 has beaten all the competition in handling, but not in acceleration.