6 speed????
 

hey im just wondering but arte there nay rumors of the next MP3 getting a 6 speed tranny, i mean every other small import car has one, y dont we?

They built a strong 5-speed. They just stopped offering it in the Protege.:)

And no need for a 6th gear? How often do you drive on the freeway? Every long trip I wish I had a taller 6th gear. Be nice to turn 3k at 80, rather than 4k. (good for mileage too :) )

Oh yeah and the Toyota 6 speed is crap. :p

I read this thread a few posts ago, didn't think anything about it at the time, but have had some thoughts since, and I am glad it popped up again.

I think with the right approach, a 6 spd transmission could be very beneficial to the protege. Leave my overdrive gear where it is. 30+ MPG on the freeway makes me plenty happy. Give me some closer gears down low with a better aim on acceleration and give my car some damn pep. I don't think that people understand the gearings impact on acceleration. You could gear a car in such a way that it tops out at 130mph. It would suck on gas mileage and on the highway, but it would rip through the 1/4 mile. It would also make more use of any torque when exiting corners. Yeah, you would probably have to work the stick a little more, but if you bought a stick in the first place, that probably wouldn't bother you too much. I am all for anything to get her moving a little quicker. I am not saying that the 6 spds that are out there and floating around are any good, but I think with some thought and effort, a good impact could be made with a 6 spd.

I agree 100%. I drive on the highway about 75% of the time. I so wish that I had a 6th gear, when I'm crusing so that i'm not up in the 4,000 rpm range.

Perhaps the best modification I have made to my 323 GT Turbo is the addition of the 626 5th gear. I now cruise at 70MPH at 2900RPM and 80MPH is still only 3400RPM. The way my 1.8 BPT is sucking gas (272HP @12PSI) I need all the help I can get. Also it makes the car a good long distance ride, where before with the 1.6 and stock gearing 80MPH felt like the motor was going to blow! With my added power even 5PSI is plenty quick even in the tall 5th gear.

Brett.

Show me a Protege that has one of these!! Mine damn sure doesn't, and I'll tell you why. One: It has no power!! and Two: It has no torque. You need to get out and drive a car with some real power brother if you think this describes the Protege motor.

Anyway, if I could redesign the gear box. This would be my goal. First gear would have more mechanical advantage. I don't care if first gear runs out in the blink of an eye. Give me some gearing to really get me going. After I wind out first, I want second to drop me to about 3500 RPM (roughly), after I run that up to about 6K or so, I want 3rd to drop me there all over again.

You know what....forget. Just get me a motor with more power. I am not even asking for fast, but lord what I'd do for 40-50 more HP.....

I think I am gonna get some cams real soon.....

Okay, I get your point, and your dyno sheet illustrates it beautifully. Very very broad torque curve.

However...what I meant by show me one of these was...A: show me one with power and B:show me one with torque. No offense, but I don't think 102hp and 118lbs qualifies. I guess I have just been spoiled. I don't like it when my buddy's motorcycle makes more horsepower and torque with less than half the displacement.

Not according to the specs I have. I am almost positive that all 1.8L DOHC cars have the exact same gearing. The 2.0L has a slightly taller 5th gear but the same gears 1st thru 4th.

BTW I agree with you about the powerband. The broad, flat torwue band is one reason I have a Protege and not a Civic- I don't like having to wait until I'm bouncing off the rev limiter in order to go fast. Also, IMHO it is exactly what you want in an autocross car :D

Yes Pseudo, that is much more along the lines of my definition of power. <muttering to self> If I could just figure out how to get that kinda power out of the P5

And no, I am not impressed with the fact that its 4 cylinders and 2L. I come from the world of DSMs, and that's common place. ;)

432 lb-ft of torque is common place from a 4-cyl DSM that is NOT running nitrous? :bs:

My Opinion
 

This is a cool discussion!

Anyway, I've noted my unhappiness with the gearing on my Pro before-- For me, my primary complaint is running at such comparatively high RPM's at normal, boring (i.e. legal) freeway speeds. If I'm going to go that slow, I'd just assume maximize fuel efficiency. It doesn't appear that Mazda wants us to be able to do that. :rant:

Mazda runs around talking about the Protege having an "overdrive". In my opinion, our 5th gears better resemble the 4th gear in my sister's '92 Toyota Tercel-- That ain't no damn overdrive!

My opinion: Stick a 6 speed in there that brings down your cruising speed RPM's where it makes sense; in the 2.5k range. Either that or friggin' make our 5th gears a *real* overdrive.

This is about the only thing that pisses me off about our Pro's, so had to say something (again)!

I'll shut up, now! :)

Before I careened drastically of topic, I made a new thread for you Pseudo and my doubting friend here.....

Psst <whispering> Its not NOS, its a turbo, and yes it works wonders


New Thread

Protege's get 30mpg+ when driven kindly. So, why do we need a 6th gear?

If you want gears for better accel, then you'll just be at higher revs when you get to highway speed. I don't believe that gears are the limiting factor when your engine is putting 110hp to the wheels (2.0L ES and P5).

I turn 4K RPM and 80mph and that seems high, but my car still gets good gas milage and is closer to the power band. So, I have no complaints.

Anyway, 430lb-ft of torque in an eclipse isn't common place; espically without NOS. That was my point.


BTW, doesn't audi make a continuously variable gear box?

Agreed + Clarification
 

Indeed, that's surely true that, as a 2 litre 4, the Pro wouldn't be able to maintain speed @ 80mph and 2.5k RPM. I was referring to 2.5k RPM at legal freeway speeds. 2500 RPM at speeds like 65 is pretty much industry standard, except for the Protege. THAT'S what I don't understand... :dunno: The 5th gear is called an "overdrive", but it doesn't deliver the kind of performance you'd expect from an overdrive. It seems logical to assume that our Pro's would be getting even better milage than we're getting now if only Mazda hadn't screwed up this tranny.

:wtf:

Anyway, as said, this is one of my pet peeves, and is just my humble opinion... :p

Further Clarification, For The Record
 

The posted speed limit in the State of Oregon is 65 on all highways; 55 in city regions and country roads.

A "cruising speed" of 80 mph is illegal in all states.

My initial reference was to *legal*, leisurely driving. Boring, albeit legal. :)

2.5k RPM at 65-70mph is an industry standard NOT provided for in the Protege.

The high RPM issue is a widely discussed oddity of the Protege.

I believe such is poorly conceived on the part of Mazda, is irresponsible, and unnecessary.

An overdrive gear is supposed to be an overdrive gear.

If one wants to zoom around at high RPM's to take advantage of the power inherent at such levels, keep it in 4th. That's what it's for.:stickpoke:

Whoops!
 

Certainly didn't mean to sound accusatory! As said, this issue is a pet peeve of mine. :rant:

What I meant in terms of irresponsibility is I don't see any logical reason to have the engine working that comparatively hard at relatively low speed ~ 70mph. It also is an unnecessary waste of fuel in a time when efficiency makes more sense than ever. Additionally, it makes for a noisier engine at cruising speeds.

Please don't get me wrong! The Pro is a great car-- I wouldn't have bought one if it wasn't, and hadn't a proven track record of reliable operation. I just don't see any logical reason why Mazda did this to this car, and it pisses me off.

In my opinion the Pro would be just about perfect with these changes:

A better gearing arrangement.
A center arm rest that's actually usable.
A door lock that's put elsewhere, so it doesn't poke you in the arm when you rest it on the door with the window rolled down on a nice day.
A few more horses under the hood.

Anyway, my apologies if I sounded too whiney or offensive! This is a cool forum and I totally respect everyone here!

Later, all!

:cheers:

Re: Further Clarification, For The Record
 

This is a matter of personal preference. Personally, I LIKE the short gearing. It makes the car a lot quicker at low speed because it's easier to keep it in the powerband. I also like the fact that the car will actually ACCELERATE in 5th gear at normal freeway speed.

I've owned a car with a small 4-cylinder and wide gear spacing, and found it highly annoying. The revs dropped too much between 2nd and 3rd, and the car would NOT accelerate in 5th. If you tried to pass someone in 5th, the car would just sit there. You HAD to downshift unless you were pointed downhill :)

I wouldn't call it an "oddity" or not the "industry standard." The last 6 cars I've owned have all been geared about the same in top gear. Admittedly, all of those cars were sports cars (2 Miatas, 2 RX-7's, a CRX Si and a Datsun 240Z) but I still like short gearing. I think that Mazda was trying to avoid the complaints Hondas, Toyotas and other small cars get because they won't accelerate worth %$^&* in 5th gear. Many drivers are afraid to downshift at high speed, so this can be a big problem. As I said, personal preference. Your results may vary :D

I looked the other night when I was driving on the freeway: at 80mph, I'm doing about 3200, and at 90mph, I'm only doing about 3600. I'm doing 4k at 100mph. Is there that much difference from a F to G tranny?

To what others have said, I like the gearing. It pulls good from 2k to 4k. We have torquey bastards in our engine compartments. Though, I do agree it would be nice to shift into a sixth gear when I'm crusing about 90mph so that the tack drops to about 3000-3150. Going from 3600 to 3000 -is- a difference. Driving half an hour or more at about 80-90mph, I'll notice a louder noise coming from under the car (say I stop at a gas station or just pull of the road from an exit, open the door, and bend down a bit to listen), like the oil is thinned out or something. Maybe I should just put on an oil cooler. Any ideas? :dunno: I don't want any "Drive slower" responses. :P

Though, like Jess said, the engine prolly has the best fuel efficiency about 3700. *shrug*

All base-engine Proteges have wider gear spacing and taller 5th gears.

From what car that dyno is from ??

My Readings
 

Say zenilder, are you in a 3rd Gen Pro? Maybe, if I understood correctly, there are differences from the 2 litre to the old 1.6 they used to offer, as my Tach's at a bit over 4 at 80mph in my 2.0 ES.

I'll write down what my specific readings are in a day or two when I get the chance to get on the highway. I still maintain they're higher than they need to be for efficient cruising, dang it! (Stressing, of course, that this is just my opinion!) :)

Re: My Readings
 

Heh.. Check my sig. I have a '92 dx.

Well, if the lx has shorter gears, I'm not going to like it. Maybe I'll have the Ftranny rebuild stronger than stock. I like the Ftranny gears. If the Gseries has me running at 4k at 80, that's going to suck.
Oh well. *shrug*

Yeah. True. It would be easier to just swap the tranny.
I haven't really noticed any torque steer in the car, to be honest.
Though, if I were to get a Gseries tranny, and I would be running 4k at 80mph vs. 3200 at 80mph with the Fseries, I would rather look into rebuilding the Fseries with stronger gears. I regularly cruise on the freeway at 80mph or faster. If the engine is going to be reving more, my gas mileage is going to suck ass.
Granted, I prolly will put in the Gseries once my F box breaks. I'm low on cash and popping 350 for a used Gseries tranny isn't possible right now. I'll wait till mine breaks, and then swap in the G box in. Then, I'd used the scattered F box to rebuild with stronger gears.

What is the difference between the G5 and G25 boxes? I know they're made for different year Pros, but is anything else different?

Whoops! Sorry about missing your sig! Boy, am I red in the face now! :D

I dont know about you guys, but in 5th gear my P5 doesnt accelerate worth crap. Now I dont mind shifting gears and all ( I end up in 3rd and forth on the highway all the time) but it seems to me that it would suck to have to shift out of 6th back into 5th to pass a car when you going 70. Did I completely miss the point here? For my style of driving, the current 5th should become 6th and the extra gear should replace, what I feel, is a gaping hole between 3th and 4th( which is already OD a bit). Not to ramble, but maybe the better solution would be to make 4th 1:1?? What do you guys think?

If the 6 speed they put into the newer Miatas is any indication of their thinking, 6th gets you no fewer revs on the highway than 5th does in the 5 speed setup, since they changed te rear gearing when the 6 speed came out.

Swapping a stock 5 speed for the 6 speed (in a Miata), actually has you winding the motor up more on the freeway, and not less.

Most Miata 6 speed owners will tell you (if they're truthful) that the shift linkage on the 6 speed is so poor, they wish they had bought the 5 speed.

Don

me and everybody else who drove my car really likes the 5th gear since you can actually pass people....

Pretty strong gear if you ask me, and perfect for the everyday driver that does only 25 km/h over the limit.....