supercharger
 

I see all this talk about turbos..
Anyone heard of, or is doing something about a supercharger.

Personally I just want some cheap, easy power. I think that if I went turbo, would have to beef up my clutch/etc. That is too much for me. I just want 30 more HP...
SUpercharger would also let me change to a new header right away, and not have to change it out again like a turbo.

Hopefully someone puts out a kit..

Thomas Knight Turbos has a kit that he says will 'just about fit a protege' but it isn't a direct bolt on. He has an Eaton supercharger and the drive pulleys and intake manifold, but he doesn't offer any kind of fuel management. He says he'll sell a kit with an FMU and an extra injector but it's something you'll have to troubleshoot. Plus, he's got a rather bad rep for shoddy welding, not giving you all the parts you need and not always knowing what he's talking about. Jackson racing has the eaton that will work well on our cars also. They just don't have any kind of kit. You'd have to fabricate your own drive pulley and intake manifold. Still, it would be cheaper than a kit.

If you want cheap easy power by a mustang. If you want a challenge buy a protege.

The problem I see with our proteges is that people all want a high boost turbo, or a huge supercharger kit to come out. It will be great for the 10 or 20 enthusiasts here that will buy them, but it will be horrible for the companies that put the $$ in research and sell just a few.

I cant understand why someone does not look at a LOW boost, or a small cheap supercharger that everyday enthusiasts can install themselves and buy for cheap. Sell 20 $4000 systems, or 500 $2000 systems. I now know why there are so few aftermarket systems.

Personally a simple bolt-on supercharger/turbo is all I want. If I get 25 more HP, I would be happy. I know lots here disagree, but then again, that is another one of our problems.

I dont agree. I talk to people at work doing mods for their cars, and nitrous is not an option for most. Nobody wants to keep recharging it. Everyone I talk to is not all that hyped about high boost, huge HP gains, they just want more zoom. Supercharger is just a way to get it (just like N/A). Does not matter which way is better, they just want a cheap bolt-on which gives immediate results.
And no company is taking advantage of this (except a car maker!, nissan which sells a supercharger to fit their truck or suv).
Oh well, guess everyone wants to sell just a few to some enthusiasts..

Toyota (TRD) has a kit for their cars/trucks. They are working on the Matrix kit. My friend has a supercharged 4-Runner and that thing hauls ass.

Aren't supercharger kits more expensive than turbo?
See what dyno numbers will be available from Proteges with full set of bolt on parts, it's pretty much unknown territory yet.
There's no such thing as "cheap horsepower", except maybe sticking ugly air duct hose in your airbox-for extra 0.5 hp.
Alex

The Matrix already has a turbo :( by XS engineering!!!!!

that's because it shares engines with the celica

Sooooo what? Protege has turbo by Tri-Point Engineering.
Alex

I hear you Tester. I agree completely. I would prefer a low to moderate boost supercharger myself. It would give a nice increase in power for a primarily street driven vehicle, whitout hurting reliability much. I'm not interested in a track car. The supercharger seems a good fit due to simplicity of operation, ease of installation, and emissions legality for most. It would also be cheaper overall than pistons, cams, etc. due to installation costs. I doubt most of us are going to install new pistons ourselves, but I could certainly handle a supercharger install. The problem with cost is it doesn't take much more money to produce a high boost application compared to a lower boost one. Once a company puts the R&D into studying the application, creating a custom manifold, picking the appriopriate compressor, etc, making more boost is usually simple. So there is no cost savings with a lower boost application. That being the case, most people feel like they're getting more for their money with higher boost.

i talke to a guy about port and polish. he said for around $900 he could port polish (with some type of swirls in the porting prosess) deck. He said it would give you bout an extra 30 hp. one time thing, cheaper.

I was thinking that a port and polish would give 10hp MAX on a basically stock motor. With other mods (like Jesse said: cams especially) this could be a good mod. I think that the intake manifold its self may need some more looking into, unless I completely missed threads about it.

Bottom end? what do you mean?

And if i got cams and bottom end done then the port and polish would add thirty or it would add thirty all together?

forget a supercharger i wouldn't get something that takes hp just to run and hit full boost at redline.

I think he's trying to tell you that it is a waste in money to get a port and polish on a stock engine (which it is). Why not invest that money elsewhere. And enjoy getting your bottom end done. :) The slightest threat of getting my bottom end done adds 30-40hp (at the wheels). Ok. Smartass time is over.

Hate to say it but I'm torn between supercharging and turbocharging. They each have their charms. I say go turbo if you are going to pursue lots of power. Go super if you just want some easy and reliable extra power

You're thinking of a centrifigal supercharger. A positive displacement blower (roots or screw type) is capable of producing full boost from a very low RPM. They are driven off the crank but don't take that much to drive. Yes, it's possible to have one that needs 400 HP to run. But that's on a 3500+ HP drag engine.

A small Eaton would work well on our engines. They only need 7-9 HP at full load to run. At highway speed they only use a few tenths of a HP since they aren't compressing anything and they have fantastic bearings. They will use more HP for higher boost, but you can only realistically run 8-9 psi on a street engine anyway without intercooling. It's very hard to package any kind of cooling between the blower and the intake manifold.

I've heard various things about them on a 2.0L. It looks like 5 psi would make about 145-150 wheel HP, and they'll do slightly over 200 at 9. By the time you get to 9 however, you better have good fuel management as you DO NOT want any pinging.

The best thing about them is that you have all of your boost by approx 2200-2300 RPM. The engine basically drives like a much larger engine. The major downside is that once you have one, the only way to make more power would be to port the head, larger throttle body, larger exhaust and then you're done. Can't keep upping the boost levels.

The best thing about them is reliability. The ones that Eaton sell are good for way over 100,000 miles. That's why so many automakers use them as original equipment.

Went junk yarding yesterday looking for used speed parts. I was looking for used turbos to see what might fit in the space we have and have close to the correct trim for our engines. Volvo has some pretty decent stuff and they don't have weird exhaust housings like so many of the other manufacturers do. I looked at ones from Volvo 740's and 850's. Small enough turbine that it should spool quickly, but has a large enough compressor so that it will move enough air to have fun with. Cost is approx $500 for a used turbo. i'm not sure if I would buy a used turbo though as I'd worry about it coming apart. Never know how the car was treated. Eclipse turbos are rare in these parts. They go out the door as soon as they come in.

The really interesting find was all the used superchargers out there. Eaton made a TON of superchargers for GM and Ford. I found 8 blowers from the GM stuff (3.8L Buick/Olds/Pontiac). It is basically an M62 eaton with an internal bypass so that it takes very little power to run when cruising. They are about $700 used from a wrecking yard and you'd have to make a manifold. The M62 will work on engines from 2.0-4.0L according to Eaton. The M45 is slightly smaller and works on engines 1.5-2.5L. The M62 will definately move more air though. I'm going to call Magnuson today and see what they charge for a rebuilt and new Eaton M45 and M62. They are the only authorized rebuilder for Eaton in the U.S.

There are many things you can do to up the power of a turbo car without upping the boost. Experiment with different intake piping Diameters, Different intercoolers and different turbos will make different HP numbers at the same PSI. I agree reliable power is a eaton roots blower but eaton can suck my ass as they fired me so NEVER buy anything from them put the bastards out of business....sorry my little vent part....but roots blowers are a good alternative to turbos awesome low end but the top end is good but not as good as with a turbo.

I'm honestly beginning to think about putting a used/rebuilt Eaton on my car. Magnuson says they'll make pulleys to my specification, and I can pick up a used M62 from a 1st gen Buick/Olds/Pontiac for $300-400 off ebay. From several people I've talked to, the stock Eatons need almost nothing if they even need anything at all. The bearings are the only thing they may need. Talked to one place that works on them and they said that for 150 superchargers that they've done, only one was damaged enough not to be used and that had a piece of metal stuck in a rotor from a motor grenading. The case was still good. I can make a sheet metal intake and make a bracket to lower the alternator. Shoot, I might be able to put it all together with an extra injector and an FMU for under 2 grand! Neat thing about those superchargers is they already have a bypass valve. Don't need to buy an external one or fabricate brackets for it.

I don't know about the older GMs with a supercharged 3.8L, but the current ones use an M90 not the M62, and they blow directly into the manifold (no IC). If the older ones did use the M62, they probably are mounted the same way and are also without and IC. However, the Ford Thunderbird Supercoupes used the M62 in earlier models and then moved to the M90. Since the output comes out the top and then goes to an air/air intercooler, the supercoupe may be a better choice as a donor vehicle since less fabrication would be required.

If anyone is interested in picking up an M90, a few Grand Prix owners will be upgrading to M112s and Blowzillas (Kenne Bell). I have a feeling that there will be a lot more M90s on eBay in the next couple of months.

The 1st gen 3.8 (93-95) used the M62 and they were built with an internal bypass. That makes them a good candidate as they can just be adapted to a manifold. They are the right size for the motor, and the physically are smaller than the later M90's. They are a good match for the 2.0 is you want it to stay efficient and not lose much power to heat. The M45 would work also. Wouldn't be a good choice for trying to up the boost though.

The output on the Supercoupes is still on the bottom. The supercharger has no internal bypass and that's what the extra external plumbing is for. That's the reason this is not as good a candidate as the GM as there would be a lot more fabrication involved.