Installshield

I think No2 is a compound that is the result of some sort of reaction, unlike the mixture in your scuba tank. If you had Nitrous in your tank you would be laughing all the way to ocean floor.

Installshield

True... I can't remember the last time a guy laughed all the way to the ocean floor and lived to tell about it.

x0panda0x

ok, i got an idea, how aobut somebody try this with their car and let us know... at worst we'd just have another darwin award nominee, http://www.darwinawards.com/, lol

1chance

i wasnt going to just throw in a suba bottle in the back of my car. i was just wondering how big they are cuz Nos bottles are really small in comparision. and so is the air that they put in suba bottles the same? or is it different. and what about if you have to be a diver to get it filled. wouldnt it be kinda wierd that you go to a scuba shop to get you nos filled?

then here is a new thing i found out. i was watching something about adding propane to a car's engine. but the car was a diesal. (spelling sucks i know) and i was wondering if you could do this. and if it does anything to a regular eninge. wondering if it adds more power than nos. not really sure cuz they didnt talk about the addition on a regular car's engine. but it should work right? ever hear about the ford mustang that made like 500hp with propane?

Sir Nuke

I have seen drag cars powered TOTALLY on Propane....just took some fancy fuel management and SPECIAL throttle bodies....the car was like a Pro-Stock type configuration.....and was runnin in the 9 second field.

unless I am mistaken...and its happened before.....a standard scuba tank holds 80 cu. ft. ...... someone mentioned weight as a factor of the bottle..... we also have some tanks here at work for scba NOT scuba...but scba....(self contained breathing apparatus) but NOT for UNDERWATER use...like in fire fighting and oxygen deficient atmosphere work....anyway....those bottles are not that heavy...they are aluminum and then wrapped with fiberglass....and are NORMALLY charged up to 4500 PSI with breathing air.

what is the NORMAL presure that you have a NOS bottle charged up to?

stocker

Fact: the last thing you should want to be doing is finding the largest bottle that holds an extremely flammable gas at extremely high pressures, then getting in your car and doing stupid **** with it. If you get into an accident with some jerry rigged contraption like that you not only stand a good chance of killing your self, but alot of bystanders, and probably a couple of firemen who are trying to save your *** from burning to death. Personally I never thought NOS should be allowed on the street to begin with. Trucks are required to state what type of compressed gases they are carrying for just such a reason.
I am not trying to stifle creativity, but if you try any of this, do it on a drag strip and make sure the officials know what you are doing.

stocker

Ok, for the last time, no the stuff in scuba tanks is not the same as NOS. Scuba tanks have nitrogen AND oxygen. Usually they put a higher percentage of oxygen in scuba tanks like 22% air instead of the normal 19%.

NOS is nitrous oxide, it has the chemical formula N2O this means it is a completely separate gas to air. NOS is very unstable, with a little heat(or pressure) N2O will break down into N2 and O like this 2N2O -> 2N2 + O2. What this formula tells you is that you have just created 3 moles of gas from 2 moles of gas. Chemists know that 1 mole of gas equals 22.4L of volume. So guess what happens in your engine when you force 44.8L of gas into the chamber and it spontaneously turns into 67.2? Then that oxygen once again burns with the gas to produce even more gas because hydrocarbons combust like so
CH4 + O2 -> CO2+2H2O(G) see what happened in that equation? 2 moles turns to 3. The secret of NOS is not the oxygen, the secret is how it evolves chemically into a greater amount of gas.

So stop talking about using pure O2 because it won't do **** besides melting your engine.
Stocker.

chdesign

OK ummmm does anyone else see something wrong with this statement. In any chemical reaction you cannot make mass. Mass is neither created nor destroyed. By the logic you just said you are saying we can take 2 moles of gas and make 3 thats impossible. N2O breaks down as a result of heat when used in an engine. It breaks down into the 2 nitrogen atoms and the 1 oxygen atom which are instantly consumed by the combustion in the chamber. N2O creates power by giving the engine extra Oxygen. Also NOS Tech recommendes 900 PSI minimum for a good run in the N2O bottle and N2O by itself is not flamable...I think whoever said that here watched the fast and the ferousios one too many times.

stocker

Just how do you think an internal combustion engine works? You put in fuel, liquid or gas, mix with O2, add a spark, compress and COMBUST!!!!! combustion is the evolution of gases. Which moves the piston.
Jesus, you're playing with NOS in your car and you don't understand this concept? That's scary.

I as for the last bit about N2O being flammable, I was actually talking about someone who mentioned putting a cannister of pure O2 in the back, but agreed it isn't flammable I shouldn't have used the terminology, but putting a can of oxidizer above a big tank of fuel has got to make you scratch your head.

stocker

Air is 28% oxygen by weight, do you really think that extra 8% is making that much difference?

Nitrogen acts as a buffer? Could you explain that to me?

Nitrous does not have a intercooling effect, every gas in the world cools as it expands, it is called thermodynamics, ever felt a bottle of propane while soldering? Heat does work, compressing a gas causes heat, allowing one to expand requires heat and hence cools the temperature of the gas as it expands.

You know, I fully admit that I know **** all about how to install or operate a nitrous system, but the stuff you guys are posting is just basic chemistry.

Stocker.

azrakain

I brouught up the scuba debate and would like to set something straight. I am not trying to put a scuba tank in my car. It is a massive tank. I was talking about a 120 cubic foot tank. They are inflated to almost 3500 Lbs of air. You do need to be a diver to get a scuba tank filled, so if you wanted to get a nitrous tank filled you would need to be a certified diver with enriched air credentials as well. Diving with enriched air is dangerous because of the extra exposure to the oxygen so they have additional courses you need to take to get certified to dive with it. I was just curious if I could fill my "NAWS" tank at the dive shop for $5. If they have the same components then it would be a much cheaper option....just curious.

Sir Nuke

Yes Stocker it is basic chemistry....and we are talking about it because someone ask WHY, and WHAT IF...and didn't know the answers......

isn't that what we are all here for? learning new things? increasing our knowledge level about our cars and what we can do with them?

Personally I think so....and don't mind answering questions....giving of my opinion....and posibly helping someone along the way.

azrakain

and stocker is wrong about the air that we breathe. Its 19-23% oxygen by weight depending on altitude and therefor 36% oxygen would be a 13-17% increase (a good ammount). Thanks for sticking up for all of us who know nothing about chemistry.....sense the sarcasm?.....

stocker

Sorry I forgot to carry the 2

stocker

Ok, I read that article, here is my problem with it. In it he states that
"Simply stated, nitrous oxide injection is very much like a supercharger or a compression ratio increase in that, during combustion, it can dramatically increase the dynamic cylinder pressure in the engine."

Ok yes I agree with him it does indeed change the compression ratio in the engine. However the small increase in oxygen being injected into the engine is not enough to account for the huge change in horsepower. you have to have a huge volume increase to create that much work.

Here I have websites too.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/n2o/n2oc.htm
This one is from the university of bristol, that gives a basic description of how N2O works.

I am not trying to tick anyone off, (someone actually took a round out of me first). I am just stating that from what I know of chemistry and energy and thermodynamics even doubling the amount of oxygen in an engine will not create enough of a volume expansion to account for a 20-30% increase in horsepower.

So everyone just chill, this is supposed to be a happy giddy type of forum.