BEGI system out soon....
 

i got a wild hair and called yesterday to bug BEGI and see when the system was going to be finished. the gentleman on the other end [older guy, very nice, may have been corky himself] proceeded to tell me that the system was complete and in testing. he said that, other than some slippage by the clutch, everything was working as expected and that pics and dynoes would be available soon.

the pricing has been set at $2950 for the first run of 10 of which 3 have already been pre-sold. after that, i was told the price would be going up.

for those that don't know, BEGI [and more importantly, corky bell] is the mastermind behind the very successful, very high-performance Flying Miata kits of SCC fame. if this Protege kit is built to the same caliber, it will be a god-send compared to the Mazdaspeed/Calloway kit and the Tripoint. [no dis intended to Tripoint, but that system does not exactly blow my kilt up.]

http://www.bellengineering.net/MP3.html

[btw, i do not work for BEGI. i'm just really anxious to see a good aftermarket turbo kit come out.]

if i read that right they think they can squeeze 300hp out the engine w/o any bottom end mods? My guess would be about 16-18lbs of boost for that ammount of hp. I don't know if that sounds realistic at all. I guess depending on the tuning anything is possible....

If they can do that then they know something that everyone else doesn't.

Think about all the Civic guys that can't get over 11 psi with stock internals. If it was possible to get 18psi out of little 4's on stock internals don't you think these Civic dudes somewhere along the line would have figured it out?

I think that is possible with the SR20 and 4G63 however. Extremely strong engines for stock.

i can assume then that you guys aren't familiar with their work with the flying miata kits. they have been able to get 290+ WHP [that's presumably 330+ HP at the crank] from the BP series miata engines running 15+ psi on 91 octane with only a well-engineered turbo kit and some knowledgable tuning... [read "the miata's stock internals have that capability. why wouldn't ours?"]

to quote the gentleman on the phone, they are running it [their prototype car] at 8 psi and haven't even needed to do any tuning what-so-ever.

i guess it all boils down to intelligent design. with what they're known to do with the miata engines' stock internals, i would NOT doubt their claimed successes with the FS engine.

don't get me wrong... i'm still waiting to see dynoes and pics before i plop down my $3K, but this is the system i have my eye most closely on and it will likely prove to be a better offering than the tripoint and ms/calloway kits.

read up on the "BP" miata engines. They are known for being "strong". Our engines are not. Read up on this some more on this board to see what I'm talking about.

I've talked to Mr. Bell over the phone several times in the last couple months and I'm confident that they know what they're talking about. They are initially going to do an 8 psi kit, but will be working on getting the boost levels up over the next year with extra fuel and better engine management. 8 psi is just with the stock computer and add-ons. They feel fairly confident that the engines will ultimately take 14-15 psi on the stock bottom end. They've got quite a history of R&D so this is the one I think I'd buy. No ding on tri-point but I don't trust their numbers. Also $3800 is a bit high and I don't like the turbo they are using.

I'VE GOT PICS....
 

corky was kind enough to send several pictures of their prototype car.....

i have an email in to him to ask if it's okay to post them here. [hate to piss him off a man i intend to give several thousand dollars to very soon...]

needless to say, from the pics, despite my limited knowledge of turbo systems, i have to say that it is still the most impressive LOOKING system for our cars.

what a nice guy....
 

Hi Patrick,

I'd be delighted to have the pictures on the Protege forum. The system is
due for first shipments in about 5 weeks.

Corky

------------------------------------------------

so here they are....
[image quality is not the best, but you can still make out the important parts.]

http://www.pkclark.com/car/turbo1.jpg
http://www.pkclark.com/car/turbo2.jpg
http://www.pkclark.com/car/turbo3.jpg
http://www.pkclark.com/car/turbo4.jpg

notice the CAST manifold, not tube fabricated. also, notice the new billet machined FMU that BEGI is known for.

So far that appears to be the best system, lets put it on the dyno.

Now I have to admit. That looks like an awesome kit. I'm very impressed.

I would agree that Maximum boost is a great book and I think the flyin' miata kits are great as well, I just think that for 14-15 lbs of boost you'll need to beef up the bottom end. I think that $2000 extra dollars would get you a set of forged lower compression pistons, forged pistons, and installation, plus you'd probably have some of the $2K left in your wallet. I may just be a pessimist and have to trust in Corky, and then yell at you guys when my engine frags.

I met this man and been to his shop (a friend had a MR2 Spyder he want a turbo for)...he understands turbos and lives for building them right. He simply will not over boost any engine. He will leave that to you...and then you can rebuild.

The shop is nice but certainly not a mass production facility. The pride is there and I would call it a fabrication shop more than a fast production shop.

Very nice guy...and amazingly intelligent. 3 grand is a hell of a deal!

It looks like a nice system...

Hey how could you tell the manifold is cast an not tubes that heat sheild seems to be blocking any type of view to the manifold

"We have completed the basic system layout and the exhaust manifold pattern is finished and at the foundry awaiting the first casting. This first item is expected on 4-29. "

Above is quoted from: http://www.bellengineering.net/MP3.html

They reference the casting of the manifold several times in there. :D

plus you can tell from the pics. it's black-anodized and pretty beefy from what you can tell from the pics.

i'm assuming that cover is purposed as a heat shield. thoughts anyone?

Please excuse this possibly ignorant comment about the BEGI turbo system. I don't know much about turbo systems, but looking at the pictures I see that the Intake for the turbo system is in the engine compartment. Wouldn't it make more sense to move the coolant reservoir and elongate the pipe with the air filter into the wheelwell where there is cooler air, like the CAIs?

Please, no mercy if I'm wrong.
:withstupi

So I assume an oil IC is probably a good idea to avoid overheating the engine? Do you think that one would be required?

Could that be the reason that in the pictures it looks like the intake hose into the engine seems to bend down (and possibly hook up to an intercooler below)?

corky said that they had to put the IC in a pretty interesting location. he didn't give to many details, but he did say it wound up having to be positioned vertially. from the photo, it appears that the IC is either in the wheelwell or at least to the very right of the engine bay, positioned vertically. the pipe you see coming up from below runs from the IC outlet to the throttle body. menace had the lay-of-the-land as far as air flow down pat.

btw, menace.... when we gonna hook up a twin cities pro club!?! i'm in eden prairie, right next door essentially.

So here is the turbo theory, as I understand it. Exhaust from the engine turns the Exhaust Turbine, which in turn spins the Intake Turbine. The Intake Turbine sucks in air from the airbox then forces it through an air intercooler, pushing cold air into the intake manifold at higher than atmospheric pressure.

The difference of the pressure forced into the intake manifold minus atmospheric pressure (measured in PSI) is the "boost" given by the turbo. (14.7 PSI is atmospheric pressure at sea level. So, a turbo at sea level giving 8 PSI of "boost" is forcing air into the intake manifold at 22.7 PSI)

This increase in PSI of (hopefully) cool air, allows for more fuel and air to be mixed in the cylinders, therefore creating a bigger explosion in the combustion chamber, which in turn yields more horsepower. Since the force of the exhaust is what drives this process, you will have lower boost or "lag" when the engine is at low RPMs.

By Jove, I hope I've got it!! :D

sorry to others, but this is off-topic....

menace, you're not even close... :dunno: :doh:
check the sig. mine is a white '01 ES. i work in the tech park off of 169 and valley view. right area, wrong car. [although, i do know that guy. troy or terry or something. 99 w/ no mods.]

drop me a line on email or IM and we'll work something out....

------------------------------

as for the topic and hand, yes, zeriak. that's the general giste of a turbo. read the "suck, squish, bang, blow" articles in SCC for all the gorie details.

everyone else, they may eventually be sold through FM, but the price is sweeter buying early and buying direct. i was told the price will go up after the first 10 systems ship for $2950; although, i was not told by how much.

Close! The intake side of the turbo is called the compressor. Also, you can build systems with small exhaust housings that will spool very quickly that make good boost at low RPM. The downside is they won't flow as well at high RPM so are limited on output.

....and such is the fatal flaw of the VW engines. tiny little exhaust pathways to get the speed up per unit of volumetric flow and hence reduce lag [they are known for being at full boost at ~2k rpm], but torque falls off very quickly over 4500 rpm, a design for more low-end efficiency at the expense of top-end output.

thanks for the nomenclature correction, Traveler.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pkc
[B]corky said that they had to put the IC in a pretty interesting location. he didn't give to many details, but he did say it wound up having to be positioned vertially. from the photo, it appears that the IC is either in the wheelwell or at least to the very right of the engine bay, positioned vertically. the pipe you see coming up from below runs from the IC outlet to the throttle body. menace had the lay-of-the-land as far as air flow down pat.

Like I stated before the people at BEGI are fabricators...they build kits that give the engine a future ...Corky is very concerned about engine temps, and longevity...as far as the IC being in a "pretty interesting location" they really do look at every option to maximize performance/ fit....I am telling you this is the company to deal with ...if you want a long lasting turbo engine. If they make a mistake ...you are still out an engine...but at least the history of this company is very strong. Likelyhood of a catastrophic error is much less with this company. Plus Corky is very humble...not boasting about his past successes...just building quailty stuff.

i wasn't intending to state that as a negative. i was just passing along what he said to me. i know full well what his systems are capable of and the reliability that their past systems have been able to achieve. again, i was not bad-mouthing, just restating what i was told....

i'm sure i've said it previously in this post, but this will be THE turbo kit for our cars.

Umm... can someone point me in the way of the pre-order form? :D

So, from the looks of things, the first run will go for just under $3000. Is that with or without the IC?

In reference to the previous post about the Honda's not taking 1 bar, or about 14 psi of boost, one of the factors would be compression. Also, as was stated previously, the Honda B-series engines have never been known to be overly stout engines. They're great as NA screamers but don't do as well with boost without reinforcement when going nuts. It's an open deck block which means the cylinder walls are a little weaker under extreme boost applications (we're talking 1.5 bars & up) & when running that high, all of them will have a block reinforcement sleeve welded in. The SR-20 is much more boost friendly simply because that's what it was designed for. Closed deck, iron block, etc. Same as the miata engines which have oil squirters for the pistons. I personally would still be a little cautious about boosting the FSDE engine over 1 bar but if I were to trust anybody in this world that told me otherwise, it definitely would be Mr Turbo (Corky) himself. I'm drunk & tired right now so if I'm wrong in any of my details, let me know. ;)

Sorry didn't mean to offend....I too believe this is THE turbo to have...

The IC location adds to the "coolness factor" of the turbo too.

I took you coments as a positve not a negative...

My apologies for coming off as a tool ...:eek:

TheMAN....
are you going to update the FAQ with all of the aftermarket gear out now? also, have you thought about making the FAQ searchable?

txzoomr....
i wasn't offended, just reiterating my points. ;)

Huey....
call them. i linked to their site in the first post of the thread. corky was very friendly to talk to. and, yes, at $2950 for the pre-order, this is not only the best spec'ed/designed system, but also the cheapest... er... least expensive.... and i believe that is WITH the IC. even at half a bar ~7psi, this should be a VERY strong system. it's making me rethink the trade-in [see sig].

I knew I was wrong somewhere. Just came back from an Import Car Show last night & saw at least 5 JDM Skyline's & 2 real JDM Silvia's. Damn I need a turbo the size of my head.... 2 of them! :D Hmm, I'm starting to rethink the FSDE engine as being just an econo engine. I can imagine half bar would be pretty safe with our engines, even a full bar as long it's tuned properly. Now, the question that begs to be answered, turbo a 1 mth old car with 3400 kms on it already or wait. I knew I shouldn't have blown $4000 on that new stereo. *sigh*.

The $2950 price tag includes everything. I spoke with Corky a couple weeks ago and that price is good for the first ten kits regardless of what the parts cost is. The price may well go up after the initial ten kits if they need to use additional fuel management. They won't increase the price on the first ones out no matter what they have to do to get them to work right. He can't see the kit going over $3500 even if they do have to add things that they didn't originally think they'd need.

Anyone have updated information about how far along the kit is, or how many preorders have been taken so far?

eric....

when i talked to him last week, there were 3 systems pre-ordered out the the 10 promised at this price. the system is complete and is in testing and performing quite well from what i was told.

I sent them an email, but I haven't received a response yet.

eric....

when i talked to him and asked for the photos, it took a couple of days. the way i look at it, would i rather them be off building kick-ass turbo systems or sitting by the 'puter emailing all day. i'm sure you'll get a reply....

I'm new to the forum. Corky used my P5 as the prototype for his turbo kit. Had it back for about 2 weeks now. See link >

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291745549

Very nice! How much boost are you running, and how does the turbo feel? :D

Where is the intercooler on your prototype? I am damn curious. And on top of that, how hard are these things (in general) to install?

Yeah, I'd like to know where the intercooler is as well. In response to arl240, turbo kits usually aren't too hard to install if you have a pretty good understanding of cars & some tools. The manifold, turbo & downpipe is pretty much drop in. Sometimes the plumbing for the intercooler, etc, can be a little challenging depending on the vehicle. Then, it's a matter of drilling into the oil pan for the oil feed to the turbo, routing some tubes, hoses for the fuel pressure regulator. Pretty much, the only other challenge would be if there is a piggy back ecu involved or ignition retard unit (eg. MSD) where you may have to splice some wires. On Miata's, most people would have it done in a weekend as long as all the parts are there & everything is prepared well. I can't imagine the P5 being much harder.