About turbo
December-28th-2001, 06:36 PM
#1
Protege Enthusiast
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Estonia
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About turbo
Does turbo needs anykind of modification inside the engine ( 1.8 doch ) ??
Compression change, pistons??
And how does it react with cams?
Just collecting information for the future
Compression change, pistons??
And how does it react with cams?
Just collecting information for the future
December-29th-2001, 10:35 AM
#2
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA Uhhh Surfs up Dude
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also when thinking about a turbo, you must also think about an intercooler....they can sometimes be equal in cost to a turbo.... Being in Estonia, you may or may not have access to factory intercoolers that you can modify to fit your car. I really have no idea what cars or models are avaiable over there, so it may be an easy task....but maybe not. Good Luck.
December-29th-2001, 11:27 AM
#3
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Intercoolers are not the problem here ... we are not that far away from civilisation 
But just thinking that does a 3rd gen 1.8 handle the turbo and what kind of insite building it needs .
but what kind of other things does a turbo need, in future always can add many things but with turbo what are important stuff to install???
And how much Hp you can get from turbo with normal boost???
Sry about my english :P
But just thinking that does a 3rd gen 1.8 handle the turbo and what kind of insite building it needs .
but what kind of other things does a turbo need, in future always can add many things but with turbo what are important stuff to install???
And how much Hp you can get from turbo with normal boost???
Sry about my english :P
December-29th-2001, 01:26 PM
#4
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while i'm not all that familiar with the 3rd gen engines, i would hazard a guess they are plenty strong for low boost (5-7psi)
I'm also a bit in the dark about OBDII, so it may be easier or harder to trick the ECU....but i would expect you'd want a boost controller, blow-off valve, some type of fuel regulator or Fuel controller, high flow fuel pump, gauges; EGT exhaust gas temp Boost, A/F air/fuel mixture and maybe a tach if you don't have one. Aside from the intercooler... On Wil's Site, there is a page for adding a turbo to a 1st gen, although not quite the same, a good place to start.
As for HP, i would say maybe 150-160 at the wheels...
First Gen Protege Site
I'm also a bit in the dark about OBDII, so it may be easier or harder to trick the ECU....but i would expect you'd want a boost controller, blow-off valve, some type of fuel regulator or Fuel controller, high flow fuel pump, gauges; EGT exhaust gas temp Boost, A/F air/fuel mixture and maybe a tach if you don't have one. Aside from the intercooler... On Wil's Site, there is a page for adding a turbo to a 1st gen, although not quite the same, a good place to start.
As for HP, i would say maybe 150-160 at the wheels...
First Gen Protege Site
January-3rd-2002, 06:58 PM
#6
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Originally posted by JustMe
That is then about 45 hp adding?
That not very much at all thinking about the price of it.
That is then about 45 hp adding?
That not very much at all thinking about the price of it.
The stock ECU is good for up to 12psi of boost (i think thats it) and that translates into about 200-220HP at the wheels. My 150-160 was judged on 5-7psi boost... as you wanted to know how much power at a "normal" boost. You can easily add 100HP to the wheels with a turbo mated to the N/A BPD even with Stock ECU, but with a gang of electronics to help it along....either way you look at it it's expensive, but the power gain is tremendus.
January-4th-2002, 03:30 AM
#7
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My car has a FP engine , like yours 3rd gen 1.8.
im looking for anykind of info about hp-s that are possible to get out from my car.
My costed about 12000 $ when it was new .... so 2000 is pretty large sum but im just watching what kind of amount i should spend and what numbers from wheels i could get then
Just thinking that could i start modifying my Mazda or should i sell Mazda and buy anything else for project ... but at the moment im staying with my Zoom-Zoom
im looking for anykind of info about hp-s that are possible to get out from my car.
My costed about 12000 $ when it was new .... so 2000 is pretty large sum but im just watching what kind of amount i should spend and what numbers from wheels i could get then
Just thinking that could i start modifying my Mazda or should i sell Mazda and buy anything else for project ... but at the moment im staying with my Zoom-Zoom
January-4th-2002, 07:08 PM
#8
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Getting hands on cast turbo manifold for FS engine might be a problem.
That's what actually bugs me-those kits in development -what kind of manifold they going to have?
Cost will be high if you want to do it right. You'll be lucky if you get away with $2000 USD. 45 hp at the wheels doesn't seem much, but you'll be accelerating along with Impreza GT, because torgue increase will be about 60 lb ft.
If I was in Estonia I would sell the car and look for used Mazda 323 GTR/GTX AWD(with 235 or 180 hp)-they were sold in Scandinavian countries and it seems that they were sold in Germany/Benilux countries as well.
Another choice-get SAAB 9-3 turbo and chip it to 250 hp fo about $1000 us(+65hp).
That's what I am gonna do if aftermarket will not make turbo kit by september 2002
Alex
That's what actually bugs me-those kits in development -what kind of manifold they going to have?
Cost will be high if you want to do it right. You'll be lucky if you get away with $2000 USD. 45 hp at the wheels doesn't seem much, but you'll be accelerating along with Impreza GT, because torgue increase will be about 60 lb ft.
If I was in Estonia I would sell the car and look for used Mazda 323 GTR/GTX AWD(with 235 or 180 hp)-they were sold in Scandinavian countries and it seems that they were sold in Germany/Benilux countries as well.
Another choice-get SAAB 9-3 turbo and chip it to 250 hp fo about $1000 us(+65hp).
That's what I am gonna do if aftermarket will not make turbo kit by september 2002
Alex
January-5th-2002, 12:24 AM
#9
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Originally posted by 90&00 Protege
Sorry for my late entry into this thread...but, being as I've done this on my Miata (for a long while now), I feel that I might be able to shed some light on things...
With regards to a turbo, the stock ECU should be able to run up to about 10psi, but you will need to include a higher capacity fuel pump, a rising rate auxillary fuel pressure regulator, and slightly larger injectors.
When I was running my Miata at 10-12psi (pre OBD-II ecu), I had replaced the stock 205cc/min injectors with 250cc/min injectors, which is the mose that the stock ecu could handle without drivability problems. Combined with the slightly increased flow rate, the increase in fuel delivery (due to the extra capacity from the pump and the increased pressure due to the auxillary regulator), fuel delivery were kept relatively correct. I also ran a J&S Knock Sensor (ignition timing retard) module, but this was on a non-knock sensor equipped car.
I have now gone to 15psi and run a replacement ecu, which allows me to run 440cc/min injectors at stock fuel pressure (which is good, because I was near 100psi in the fuel lines at 12psi boost) and can now alter the fuel and ignition mapping at all levels of boost and load.
Additionally, I have gone to a dual-feed fuel rail, as the stock unit allows one cylinder to run leaner than the others at higher boost ranges. Being as the knock sensor (part of the replacement ecu) tunes for the worst case, all cylinders are hampered when one runs lean. With the new fuel rail, all cylinders receive the same amount of fuel pressure. An exhaust gas temperature gauge is next, to get tuning even more perfect.
Way back, when I was running 6psi (non-intercooled), that put the Miata at about 120-130bhp at the rear wheels (a stock 1.6L Miata, rated at 116bhp is only 92bhp at the rear wheels). Running 12psi (intercooled now of course) with the stock ecu, larger injectors, aux fuel pump, aux fuel pressure regulator, I dynoed at 216bhp a the rear wheels. Now running 15psi with the aftermarket ecu setup, I have dynoed at over 250bhp at the rear wheels.
There are some in the Miata community (with 1.8L cars) that have dynoed at over 300bhp at the rear wheels, one guy at over 400bhp (still a stock bottom end and just minor head work).
Sorry for my late entry into this thread...but, being as I've done this on my Miata (for a long while now), I feel that I might be able to shed some light on things...
With regards to a turbo, the stock ECU should be able to run up to about 10psi, but you will need to include a higher capacity fuel pump, a rising rate auxillary fuel pressure regulator, and slightly larger injectors.
When I was running my Miata at 10-12psi (pre OBD-II ecu), I had replaced the stock 205cc/min injectors with 250cc/min injectors, which is the mose that the stock ecu could handle without drivability problems. Combined with the slightly increased flow rate, the increase in fuel delivery (due to the extra capacity from the pump and the increased pressure due to the auxillary regulator), fuel delivery were kept relatively correct. I also ran a J&S Knock Sensor (ignition timing retard) module, but this was on a non-knock sensor equipped car.
I have now gone to 15psi and run a replacement ecu, which allows me to run 440cc/min injectors at stock fuel pressure (which is good, because I was near 100psi in the fuel lines at 12psi boost) and can now alter the fuel and ignition mapping at all levels of boost and load.
Additionally, I have gone to a dual-feed fuel rail, as the stock unit allows one cylinder to run leaner than the others at higher boost ranges. Being as the knock sensor (part of the replacement ecu) tunes for the worst case, all cylinders are hampered when one runs lean. With the new fuel rail, all cylinders receive the same amount of fuel pressure. An exhaust gas temperature gauge is next, to get tuning even more perfect.
Way back, when I was running 6psi (non-intercooled), that put the Miata at about 120-130bhp at the rear wheels (a stock 1.6L Miata, rated at 116bhp is only 92bhp at the rear wheels). Running 12psi (intercooled now of course) with the stock ecu, larger injectors, aux fuel pump, aux fuel pressure regulator, I dynoed at 216bhp a the rear wheels. Now running 15psi with the aftermarket ecu setup, I have dynoed at over 250bhp at the rear wheels.
There are some in the Miata community (with 1.8L cars) that have dynoed at over 300bhp at the rear wheels, one guy at over 400bhp (still a stock bottom end and just minor head work).
ok... this is good information and all... but we're not talking about a b-series mazda motor. the fact is that the f-series motor isn't well known for turbo strength, due to the lack of anyone ever turbocharging them. The compression is higher, and and internals are weaker, so the limits of the engine are still unknown.
January-5th-2002, 11:58 PM
#10
Patriotic Protege5
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampton, VA
Posts: 908
There is a few turbo manifolds for our cars I thought. Read the posts on this thread: http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/sho...?threadid=1317
This thread gave a fwe suggestions on manifolds that are available. Do people use the search engine here????
This thread gave a fwe suggestions on manifolds that are available. Do people use the search engine here????
January-8th-2002, 11:12 PM
#13
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Location: Evanston, IL
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Where are you guys getting your information? As far as I know, Mazda only uses a 1.6L or 2.0 liter engine in the 2001-2002 Proteges. The compression ratio for the '99-'00 1.8L FP engine was 9.1:1, as is the '01-'02 2.0L FS engine. The compression ratios in the BP and FS engines isn't enough of a difference to matter for turbocharging. The connecting rods in the normally aspirated BP engine weren't all that special. The rods in the stock turbo versions, B6T & BPT, were much stronger, and are no longer available. Both the BP and FP/FS engines are sand cast Vs. Honda engines being die cast. That means closed deck blocks Vs. open deck. The crankshafts are both forged. The BP has the advantage of being turbocharged from the factory, and older, so much more aftermarket development has taken place. The FP/FS engines have plenty of potential with some factory and/or aftermarket support. Certainly enough to make the transaxle the probable weak link in the drivetrain.
January-9th-2002, 09:25 AM
#14
Patriotic Protege5
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampton, VA
Posts: 908
Actually, for 2002 all proteges get the 2.0L. Before that I'm not sure what engines were available other than the fact that there was 1.6L, 1.8L, and 2.0L. I am with Eric on this one. I think that the transmission and axels will struggle under boost...
January-9th-2002, 12:21 PM
#15
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Location: Evanston, IL
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The fact is, the FP/FS engines and 3rd gen Proteges are relatively new. They haven't had much development done on them yet especially with a turbo application so it's impossible to know how strong everything is. The only parts that have been around for a while, and used in other applications are the F and G type transaxles. It is pretty well known that the G type in the '01+ 2.0L Proteges is stronger than the F type in the '99-'00 1.8L Proteges. The question is exactly how much power you are trying to produce, and what can the drivetrain components handle. The best info we have so far are the Speedvision World Challenge Touring series Proteges with around 200 to 215 normally aspirated HP from FS-ZE based engines. I think the only mods done to the drivetrain were a Quaife LSD, lightweight flywheel and stronger clutch. I don't know about you guys, but I'd be more than happy with that.