RMS for Bridged Amp
February-14th-2003, 03:01 PM
#1
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RMS for Bridged Amp
I have 2 amps that could be used for my future sub:
1) Clarion APX201.2 (2/1 channel) 2x50 rms
and
2) Clarion APX401.4 (4/3/2 channel) 4x50 rms
yeah, yeah these are not gonna be db monsters
What would the rms be for the 201 if I bridge the amp with a 4ohm load. (Spec sheet is saying 230w at a 2 ohm load.)? For the 401, same question (spec says 190w x2 at a 2 ohm load)
As well, what would be a better combination for accuracy and decent base: 2 x 10" or or 1 x 12" considering the amps mentioned above. I had the 201 running 1x 12" sealed Nach SVC in by last car and I was v.please with the db, so I am not looking at upgrading the amps, just the best match with what I have.
~4 rubBer
1) Clarion APX201.2 (2/1 channel) 2x50 rms
and
2) Clarion APX401.4 (4/3/2 channel) 4x50 rms
yeah, yeah these are not gonna be db monsters
What would the rms be for the 201 if I bridge the amp with a 4ohm load. (Spec sheet is saying 230w at a 2 ohm load.)? For the 401, same question (spec says 190w x2 at a 2 ohm load)
As well, what would be a better combination for accuracy and decent base: 2 x 10" or or 1 x 12" considering the amps mentioned above. I had the 201 running 1x 12" sealed Nach SVC in by last car and I was v.please with the db, so I am not looking at upgrading the amps, just the best match with what I have.
~4 rubBer
February-14th-2003, 05:09 PM
#2
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Are you suggesting "double bridging" the four channel amp? 
Not aware of clarion being able to do that.
The answer IMHO is to use the 201.2 and one ten, but I am not a bass freak in anyway, and that will generate bass in a P-5. My other observation would be that if you liked your results before, stick to the same setup unless you have heard a different setup of product that appeals to you for this install.
In many amps typically bridging does gain you a few watts, often not enough difference to hear though... and in turn ohmage might double the output in a very good design. If true for you, them you might get 100 to 125 watts bridged out of the two channel.
Accuracy and decent bass can often conflict a goals, so watch out!
Good Hunting, and please do let us know what you decide on, and how the install goes, and how it sounds to you!
Not aware of clarion being able to do that.
The answer IMHO is to use the 201.2 and one ten, but I am not a bass freak in anyway, and that will generate bass in a P-5. My other observation would be that if you liked your results before, stick to the same setup unless you have heard a different setup of product that appeals to you for this install.
In many amps typically bridging does gain you a few watts, often not enough difference to hear though... and in turn ohmage might double the output in a very good design. If true for you, them you might get 100 to 125 watts bridged out of the two channel.
Accuracy and decent bass can often conflict a goals, so watch out!
Good Hunting, and please do let us know what you decide on, and how the install goes, and how it sounds to you!
February-14th-2003, 07:01 PM
#3
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check out my www , i am useing a clarion 401.2 ch and im running the amp at 4ohms mono (equiv. 2ohms stereo)
i have 190w RMS running to each of my subs (clarion 10" DVC x2) so total output is 380W RMS
if you have the 4ch AMP you can do the same thing bridge everything together and get a mono ch going
i have 190w RMS running to each of my subs (clarion 10" DVC x2) so total output is 380W RMS
if you have the 4ch AMP you can do the same thing bridge everything together and get a mono ch going
February-14th-2003, 08:55 PM
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for a point of clarification here, I went to the Clarion site, and looked at the manual for the 400.4. It cannot be bridged into a single channel. It can be bridged into two channels. So it could be used to power two 10 inch subs as long as each sub gets a seperate channel. You could not however run them in a series or parallel with both channels of the amp somehow hooked into one set of connectons to the speakers.
geat way to blow an amp.
geat way to blow an amp.
February-14th-2003, 10:53 PM
#5
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Originally posted by Dave Cameron
for a point of clarification here, I went to the Clarion site, and looked at the manual for the 400.4. It cannot be bridged into a single channel. It can be bridged into two channels. So it could be used to power two 10 inch subs as long as each sub gets a seperate channel. You could not however run them in a series or parallel with both channels of the amp somehow hooked into one set of connectons to the speakers.
geat way to blow an amp.
for a point of clarification here, I went to the Clarion site, and looked at the manual for the 400.4. It cannot be bridged into a single channel. It can be bridged into two channels. So it could be used to power two 10 inch subs as long as each sub gets a seperate channel. You could not however run them in a series or parallel with both channels of the amp somehow hooked into one set of connectons to the speakers.
geat way to blow an amp.
Anyway, what I'm really hoping to hear is how I can maximize the use out of my existing amps. If I used, say, one 2ohm sub, would I be putting out a "true" 190 w? Can I get anymore than 100 w rms out of the 2 channel using a 4 ohm load? As well, as a general theory, does the total surface area of a sub (or subs)relate to an increase in db or sq?
And, yes Dave, I was happy with my previous set-up, but I'm just looking to see if I can improve and/or maximize what I'm using.
February-15th-2003, 03:58 PM
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Thanks for the nice response 4 rubBeR!
The numbers we all read like 190 in this case are max output, at some level of distortion, maybe 1%. This is one of the great differences between a real amp like the clarions you have (nice stuff really!!) and flea market brands- how high a distortion they will go with, like a mustang amp, (I have one in my shop to show this to folks!). will use a 10% distortion number to declare 200 watts!
Anyway, the number is the best case, using a tone. music is much more, well musical or dynamic, so you probably won't be hitting it often for long period of time, and truth is that is stretching the amp to it's limits anyway.
Your other supposition is right on the numbers though, and you have the hardware to back it. Going with a 2 ohm speaker will result in the amp having "more" wattage to go. The clarion amps should do fine on a 2 okm load, but do watch getting the load any lower.
The last thiing I can think of would be speaker efficency, get it as high as you can, another useful simiilar number will be like 105Db/1watt for example, a rating that with one clean watt the sub will run 105DB.
OK you sub experts out their jump in! SQ is my thing, so hopefully someother folks on the board will chime in over the weekend.
Good Luck. We got a touch of artic cold here today, and man is it bloody freezing!!
The numbers we all read like 190 in this case are max output, at some level of distortion, maybe 1%. This is one of the great differences between a real amp like the clarions you have (nice stuff really!!) and flea market brands- how high a distortion they will go with, like a mustang amp, (I have one in my shop to show this to folks!). will use a 10% distortion number to declare 200 watts!
Anyway, the number is the best case, using a tone. music is much more, well musical
or dynamic, so you probably won't be hitting it often for long period of time, and truth is that is stretching the amp to it's limits anyway. Your other supposition is right on the numbers though, and you have the hardware to back it. Going with a 2 ohm speaker will result in the amp having "more" wattage to go. The clarion amps should do fine on a 2 okm load, but do watch getting the load any lower.
The last thiing I can think of would be speaker efficency, get it as high as you can, another useful simiilar number will be like 105Db/1watt for example, a rating that with one clean watt the sub will run 105DB.
OK you sub experts out their jump in! SQ is my thing, so hopefully someother folks on the board will chime in over the weekend.
Good Luck. We got a touch of artic cold here today, and man is it bloody freezing!!
February-15th-2003, 04:22 PM
#7
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Also, if you end up using the 4 ch, and you stiil want to use a single sub, think Dual Voice coils.
As for any system, you can never have too much power, the more the better (usually) Not to say you'll use it all the time, or ever, but with more power comes more headroom and facilitates tweeking somewhat. You just have more felxibility with more power.
As for any system, you can never have too much power, the more the better (usually) Not to say you'll use it all the time, or ever, but with more power comes more headroom and facilitates tweeking somewhat. You just have more felxibility with more power.
February-15th-2003, 04:30 PM
#8
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Originally posted by 4 rubBeR
[B] As well, as a general theory, does the total surface area of a sub (or subs)relate to an increase in db or sq? [B]
[B] As well, as a general theory, does the total surface area of a sub (or subs)relate to an increase in db or sq? [B]
Also remember that a 3db gain is DOUBLE the output volume, not necessarily the wattage output double, but the amount of volume output.
The MOST impotant thing is the enclosure for any sub, beit SPL or SQ. If the enclouse is not matched to the subs specs it can and will sound like ***, it may boom the neighboors 3 streets away, but not be comfortable to listen to inside the car. Also the construction of the enclosure is important, even small minor flexing of the enclosure will change it's resonant freq and change the sound, as with choice of material can have an effect of sound.
Build it to specs and build it to take a bomb hit and you'll have some sweet sounding low end.
February-17th-2003, 12:51 AM
#9
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Originally posted by mazdaspeedwest
Cone surface area is VERY important for SPL, the more the better, although for SQ, this can fluctuate. For SQ, the specs are more important to cone area.
Cone surface area is VERY important for SPL, the more the better, although for SQ, this can fluctuate. For SQ, the specs are more important to cone area.
And for SQ...I've always thought the smaller the sub the cleaner the sound.
February-17th-2003, 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Dave Cameron
Going with a 2 ohm speaker will result in the amp having "more" wattage to go. The clarion amps should do fine on a 2 ohm load, but do watch getting the load any lower...
Going with a 2 ohm speaker will result in the amp having "more" wattage to go. The clarion amps should do fine on a 2 ohm load, but do watch getting the load any lower...
So, for sound quality you believe that running a 10" with a 4 ohm load with the 2 channel bridged is still the best set up. I assume you'd suggest sealed (vs ported) judging by your personal preferences?
Originally posted by mazdaspeedwest ...Also the construction of the enclosure is important, even small minor flexing of the enclosure will change it's resonant freq and change the sound, as with choice of material can have an effect of sound.
Build it to specs and build it to take a bomb hit and you'll have some sweet sounding low end.
Build it to specs and build it to take a bomb hit and you'll have some sweet sounding low end.
) and I am particularly carefull in its construction and go as far as sealing the mdf with waterproof paint; inside and out. So when you say consider a dvc, do I understand that I'd use the 4 channel, bridged to two and mono and wire each coil as a 4 ohm channel? With that set-up, what rms power would my 4ch amp be putting out? I suppose its treating the dvc sub as 2 separate cones, right? So it would still be 100 x2 or 200 watts rms or am I way off here?
February-19th-2003, 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by 4 rubBeR
So when you say consider a dvc, do I understand that I'd use the 4 channel, bridged to two and mono and wire each coil as a 4 ohm channel? With that set-up, what rms power would my 4ch amp be putting out? I suppose its treating the dvc sub as 2 separate cones, right? So it would still be 100 x2 or 200 watts rms or am I way off here?
So when you say consider a dvc, do I understand that I'd use the 4 channel, bridged to two and mono and wire each coil as a 4 ohm channel? With that set-up, what rms power would my 4ch amp be putting out? I suppose its treating the dvc sub as 2 separate cones, right? So it would still be 100 x2 or 200 watts rms or am I way off here?
no mono with a 4channel.
for simplicity since your leaning towards using the 4channel amp, actually now considered a 2ch amp (bridged) yes, treat the DVC sub as 2 subs and wire like normal.
4ch brideged to 2ch's
ch1 to voice coil1 and ch2 to voice coil2 on a 4 ohm DVC sub.
Now with a 2ohm DVC sub, you'll just step up that much more in power, but the amp will be working harder and running hotter. Headroom is diminished and premature clipping may occur. Providing the amp can handle 2ohm bridged mode.
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