Researching a good/affordable sound system:
February-5th-2003, 05:34 PM
#16
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gainesville/Miami FL
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Well in reality, anything under ~120Hz is bass... but I meant that I like the really low rumbling 20-30Hz bass drops the most. I want something a little more quality than the Basslink.. thats why I'm choosing the Kappa Perfect 12.1.
February-6th-2003, 12:18 AM
#18
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 82
You talking affordable?
Here's what I'm gonna do:
keep existing factory 6-disc (or if you have a single?)
add a factory tape deck ($80 bucks from someone on the board)
tape adapter: ($5)
+MP3 player, portable MiniDisc (if you have them)
Alpine V-power amp (it's now $150 brand new on crutchfield.com)... true, clean 40 watts x4 with speaker level inputs
Boston acoustics speakers (less than $100 bucks a pair on eBay)
wire kit ($25 bucks Walmart, Target)
Kenwood WooX powered sub (optional, $200) I'll eventually get this, under the passenger seat and outta the way
In the words of Tenacious D, I think this will "rock yer ****** socks off".
I don't give a **** about bump contests, etc. And I don't think you'll tell a difference vs. with a non-factory head unit unless you try to listen to Beethoven with the engine shut off.
With this set-up I have a nice clean orange glow look, and don't have any worries about theft at all. I refuse to walk back to my car and find a broken window and glass splayed all over the seat again.
Here's what I'm gonna do:
keep existing factory 6-disc (or if you have a single?)
add a factory tape deck ($80 bucks from someone on the board)
tape adapter: ($5)
+MP3 player, portable MiniDisc (if you have them)
Alpine V-power amp (it's now $150 brand new on crutchfield.com)... true, clean 40 watts x4 with speaker level inputs
Boston acoustics speakers (less than $100 bucks a pair on eBay)
wire kit ($25 bucks Walmart, Target)
Kenwood WooX powered sub (optional, $200) I'll eventually get this, under the passenger seat and outta the way
In the words of Tenacious D, I think this will "rock yer ****** socks off".
I don't give a **** about bump contests, etc. And I don't think you'll tell a difference vs. with a non-factory head unit unless you try to listen to Beethoven with the engine shut off.
With this set-up I have a nice clean orange glow look, and don't have any worries about theft at all. I refuse to walk back to my car and find a broken window and glass splayed all over the seat again.
Last edited by fat.elvis; February-6th-2003 at 12:31 AM.
February-6th-2003, 12:28 AM
#19
Clean-Up Crew
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pleasure Point, Ca.
Posts: 2,360
I listened to the under-the-seat kenwood sub before I bought my Basslink. I'm not not trying to be a kook but trust me, compare the two and I bet you'll spend the extra $ and get the Infinity.
February-6th-2003, 10:13 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta, formerly Calgary
Posts: 363
Fat.elvis - I see you have a sedan. Although the wOOx under the seat is a great option (I have it in my P5), I would definitely consider a box in the trunk, like the basslink or a premade JL box or something, since it will be out of site and can be made to be out of the way.
Although...... I wouldn't trade my wOOx as I have a P5 and a big dog, so a sub in the uncovered hatch area doesn't cut it.
The wOOx by the way, sounds quite good in the car under the seat (passenger seat - it won't fit under the driver seat of a 2002+ due to the seat height adjustment mechanism) - it adds a reasonable amount of bass, not overpowering, and because it is so close to your ears it doesn't have to be ultra loud to be effective.
Dale.
Although...... I wouldn't trade my wOOx as I have a P5 and a big dog, so a sub in the uncovered hatch area doesn't cut it.
The wOOx by the way, sounds quite good in the car under the seat (passenger seat - it won't fit under the driver seat of a 2002+ due to the seat height adjustment mechanism) - it adds a reasonable amount of bass, not overpowering, and because it is so close to your ears it doesn't have to be ultra loud to be effective.
Dale.
February-6th-2003, 12:25 PM
#21
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
I used a basslink in my old protege, and liked it just fine for what it did for me. The Woox reminds me of OLD surround sound units, meant to shake the floor for realistic bass!
I have never heard one, but low frequency in many ways, at least without wavefrom guiding boxes, is a function of the size of the speaker as much as anything. Because I have not heard on in action, I won't slam the woox, but it would be a technological feat for it to produce as much sound as a larger speaker, or at least larger box.
Anyone lived with a woox out there?
I have never heard one, but low frequency in many ways, at least without wavefrom guiding boxes, is a function of the size of the speaker as much as anything. Because I have not heard on in action, I won't slam the woox, but it would be a technological feat for it to produce as much sound as a larger speaker, or at least larger box.
Anyone lived with a woox out there?
February-6th-2003, 02:36 PM
#22
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta, formerly Calgary
Posts: 363
Originally posted by Dave Cameron
I used a basslink in my old protege, and liked it just fine for what it did for me. The Woox reminds me of OLD surround sound units, meant to shake the floor for realistic bass!
I have never heard one, but low frequency in many ways, at least without wavefrom guiding boxes, is a function of the size of the speaker as much as anything. Because I have not heard on in action, I won't slam the woox, but it would be a technological feat for it to produce as much sound as a larger speaker, or at least larger box.
Anyone lived with a woox out there?
I used a basslink in my old protege, and liked it just fine for what it did for me. The Woox reminds me of OLD surround sound units, meant to shake the floor for realistic bass!
I have never heard one, but low frequency in many ways, at least without wavefrom guiding boxes, is a function of the size of the speaker as much as anything. Because I have not heard on in action, I won't slam the woox, but it would be a technological feat for it to produce as much sound as a larger speaker, or at least larger box.
Anyone lived with a woox out there?
Your points are all correct. The wOOx is a passive radiator design with a 6 inch speaker and 6.5 inch passive radiator, so it has some cone area to work with, and the small box benefits of a passive radiator design. It definitely reproduces the lower frequencies well, but not as low or as loud as a larger unit would (it only has a 100W class D amp). It actually sounds best if you get it in a spot where vibration is not introduced into the listening (feeling) experience, and the sound quality is surprisingly good, especially for such a small box. I have an original series solobaric in my other system, and I like listening to both that and the wOOx just fine.
One thing with the wOOx is that it can be mounted up front so not as much power is needed to get a reasonable volume. I have it coupled with my door speakers run off an old 4x35W V12 amp, and that is a nice match in my opinion for 95% of the time when I don't want to go deaf. I mounted it under the passenger seat in my case - I do admit that I prefer sitting on the side that doesn't have the wOOx mounted so I don't get distracted by the vibration of the seat - but that's the only pitfall I have encountered so far.
.space saving bass
Since I have a P5 with the hatch cover off 95% of the time and an 80 pound dog in there 65% of the time, I am willing to live with the (not very significant) sonic compromise. It is not a competition system, and never will be, but it does the job well, stacks up better than you would think, and is 100% invisible as I have the factory deck as well. If cargo space and visibility were not issues in my system design, I would go with something more conventional as well, but I am certainly not regretting the way I set things up at all.
But despite all that, Dave - if you offered to trade me that Velodyne sub and the amp you are using with it for the wOOx, I would consider putting the hatch cover back on
Dale
February-7th-2003, 08:31 AM
#24
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lynn, Mass
Posts: 34
Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Aloines don't offer EQs in the $280 region of units becuase simply put the ones available are bullshit. Bass, treble and mid does not count as an EQW nor does a preset wave form, Kenwood , that walways saounds like ***. Alpine gives real features like time correction which is very effective not to metnion full crossover control, even slope. Even the $280 unit has time correction and bass and treble adjustment with frequency center and width. WHich basicly makes it a 2 setting parametric EQ. When you step to the higher modles you get a 5 band parametric true eq plus some just redicouls setiup features. Basicly to see them all hit alpines website and go to there I-personalize section. Register and you can enter your model number at it will take you trough the options.
Aloines don't offer EQs in the $280 region of units becuase simply put the ones available are bullshit. Bass, treble and mid does not count as an EQW nor does a preset wave form, Kenwood , that walways saounds like ***. Alpine gives real features like time correction which is very effective not to metnion full crossover control, even slope. Even the $280 unit has time correction and bass and treble adjustment with frequency center and width. WHich basicly makes it a 2 setting parametric EQ. When you step to the higher modles you get a 5 band parametric true eq plus some just redicouls setiup features. Basicly to see them all hit alpines website and go to there I-personalize section. Register and you can enter your model number at it will take you trough the options.
I am going to be looking for someone to do a souround sound system for my conversion van in a couple of months.
February-7th-2003, 03:25 PM
#25
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
b-real;
Just be careful how "tiny" the box is that you plan to use with that Infinity. I shredded one by having it in a VERY small enclosure, while giving it basically RMS power.
If possible, use a sealed enclosure with about 1 cu/ft airspace (AFTER the sub is installed). This will get nice and deep, sound very tight, and you will be VERY pleased. Give the Infinity the right power, too. If I'm not mistaked, RMS is 350 or so? Try to give it that much - i.e., get an amp that ACTUALLY puts out 350 watts RMS. You'd do fine a little lower than that, too - maybe 300. Just don't overdo it - Infinitys don't like to be abused - my popped Perfect is a testament to that!
You will be very happy with the Perfect's sound, IMO. I LOVED mine, even in a waaaayyy-too-small enclosure (like .4 cubes with the sub in place - ouch). They have great SQ.
Definitely consider spending more on the front speakers, and going with components. IMO, I wouldn't even swap the rears. Let them run from deck power, and keep them as-is, or put in a cheap $40 Kenwood set or something if you really want. But spending any of your REAL budget on rear speakers is a waste, especially in our cars. The speakers are in a horrible location, and you really can't hear them up front at all. IMO, if you were going to spend any real money there, I'd try to get some mid-bass out of it - nothing more. But consider leaving them alone, and spending the money you save on a good front set of component speakers. Being able to locate the tweeter where you want and separate from the mid makes for a much more expansive sound stage and overall better sound reproduction.
Other than that, you sound like you're on the right track. I had Infinty component speakers up front also (605cs), and they cranked. Slightly lacking in midbass, but man oh man - did they hit the midrange! I used to wince at snare drum hits. Check them out.
~HH
Just be careful how "tiny" the box is that you plan to use with that Infinity. I shredded one by having it in a VERY small enclosure, while giving it basically RMS power.
If possible, use a sealed enclosure with about 1 cu/ft airspace (AFTER the sub is installed). This will get nice and deep, sound very tight, and you will be VERY pleased. Give the Infinity the right power, too. If I'm not mistaked, RMS is 350 or so? Try to give it that much - i.e., get an amp that ACTUALLY puts out 350 watts RMS. You'd do fine a little lower than that, too - maybe 300. Just don't overdo it - Infinitys don't like to be abused - my popped Perfect is a testament to that!
You will be very happy with the Perfect's sound, IMO. I LOVED mine, even in a waaaayyy-too-small enclosure (like .4 cubes with the sub in place - ouch). They have great SQ.
Definitely consider spending more on the front speakers, and going with components. IMO, I wouldn't even swap the rears. Let them run from deck power, and keep them as-is, or put in a cheap $40 Kenwood set or something if you really want. But spending any of your REAL budget on rear speakers is a waste, especially in our cars. The speakers are in a horrible location, and you really can't hear them up front at all. IMO, if you were going to spend any real money there, I'd try to get some mid-bass out of it - nothing more. But consider leaving them alone, and spending the money you save on a good front set of component speakers. Being able to locate the tweeter where you want and separate from the mid makes for a much more expansive sound stage and overall better sound reproduction.
Other than that, you sound like you're on the right track. I had Infinty component speakers up front also (605cs), and they cranked. Slightly lacking in midbass, but man oh man - did they hit the midrange! I used to wince at snare drum hits. Check them out.
~HH
February-7th-2003, 04:07 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gainesville/Miami FL
Posts: 202
hihoslva,
Thanks for that tip! Ya, I now plan on a Profile 300x1 bridged RMS amp.. the reason I chose 5x7 in the front is because I dont want to have to fab anything to make anything else fit. Does infinity make 5x7 components? Making the rears mid bass sounds like a good idea. I might plan on doing that instead. As for the sub eclosure, does 1.5cu-ft sound ok without the sub in it?
Thanks for that tip! Ya, I now plan on a Profile 300x1 bridged RMS amp.. the reason I chose 5x7 in the front is because I dont want to have to fab anything to make anything else fit. Does infinity make 5x7 components? Making the rears mid bass sounds like a good idea. I might plan on doing that instead. As for the sub eclosure, does 1.5cu-ft sound ok without the sub in it?
February-7th-2003, 04:12 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
4 things
one: infinity doesn't make 5X7 components
two: buy 5.25 components and get a 5 buck adapter to convert 5X7 to 5.25
three: buy usacoustic amps, cheaper, better, more power, longer warrantee
4: if its a 10" sub, you need about .65 cu ft. if its a 12, you need 1.0 cu ft.
one: infinity doesn't make 5X7 components
two: buy 5.25 components and get a 5 buck adapter to convert 5X7 to 5.25
three: buy usacoustic amps, cheaper, better, more power, longer warrantee
4: if its a 10" sub, you need about .65 cu ft. if its a 12, you need 1.0 cu ft.
February-7th-2003, 04:32 PM
#28
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
1.5 on the sub box sounds just fine. You'll be pleased!
As for the speakers - I dont know if ANYONE makes oval components. I agree with walight, except I'd go for 6.5" instead of 5.25s. The 6.5s will have just that much more cone area, and Infinity speakers do lack (just a bit - no big deal) in the bass department. Since they are more midrange-y, might as well get the biggest you can, which will give more mid-bass. Don't think for a SECOND that I am putting down Infinity speakers. I LOVED mine, and have considered many times switching back.
An idea: Pick up small sheet of 1/2" MDF, or even plywood, at Home Depot or the like - maybe a remnant for a couple bucks - you don't need much at all Using your old (stock?) speaker, trace the outline on the wood twice (one for each side). Then, take the new 6.5 (cuz I KNOW you're gonna do the right thing here and get components...) and trace that inside the first tracing. You now have a template for the speaker adapter. If you can't cut it yourself, bring it to any local lumberyard, maybe even Home Depot, or stereo shop - and ask someone to cut it out for you - $10 or so in a guy's pocket for 5 minutes work is worth your time and his. Then, attach the adapters to the car, using the same holes the old speaker used (you may need longer screws), and screw the new speakers into the adapters. This whole thing oughtta cost about $20 or less, and is WELL worth it. You may have to trim an area inside the door panel - like a trim that may be in the way with the speakers now sitting 1/2" further out that before - but it's a simple little snip snip - you'll see.
As for the speakers - I dont know if ANYONE makes oval components. I agree with walight, except I'd go for 6.5" instead of 5.25s. The 6.5s will have just that much more cone area, and Infinity speakers do lack (just a bit - no big deal) in the bass department. Since they are more midrange-y, might as well get the biggest you can, which will give more mid-bass. Don't think for a SECOND that I am putting down Infinity speakers. I LOVED mine, and have considered many times switching back.
An idea: Pick up small sheet of 1/2" MDF, or even plywood, at Home Depot or the like - maybe a remnant for a couple bucks - you don't need much at all Using your old (stock?) speaker, trace the outline on the wood twice (one for each side). Then, take the new 6.5 (cuz I KNOW you're gonna do the right thing here and get components...
) and trace that inside the first tracing. You now have a template for the speaker adapter. If you can't cut it yourself, bring it to any local lumberyard, maybe even Home Depot, or stereo shop - and ask someone to cut it out for you - $10 or so in a guy's pocket for 5 minutes work is worth your time and his. Then, attach the adapters to the car, using the same holes the old speaker used (you may need longer screws), and screw the new speakers into the adapters. This whole thing oughtta cost about $20 or less, and is WELL worth it. You may have to trim an area inside the door panel - like a trim that may be in the way with the speakers now sitting 1/2" further out that before - but it's a simple little snip snip - you'll see.
February-7th-2003, 06:00 PM
#30
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
You don't need to modify the door per se, but you do need to make/buy adapter plates for 6.5s up front. The only modification necessary is the trimming of a little bit of the inside of the plastic panel near the speaker "grille" if you make adapter plates out of wood or MDF.
~HH
~HH