replacing 2000 speakers
Thread Starter
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14
replacing 2000 speakers
I just finished installing a new Pioneer CD source, huge improvement over the stock HU. Now looking to upgrade the front door speakers for some improvement over the factory speakers.
Looking primarily for soundstage - full range. I noticed that Pioneer makes a low end 6x8 with a range of 35-22K.
Did a bit of searching, (here first obviously), in the sticky the 2000 fronts are listed as 6x8's.
I've noticed in older threads that everyone talks about the infinities. Are they that good or are they just the best available in the 6x8 size?
Should I stick with 6x8 or are there better options if I drop down to 5x7's? Or would I lose the lower end?
Leaving the rear 6x9's as is... they're not giving me any problems. Current priority are the fronts, followed maybe by a small sub, then the rears.
Greatful for any suggestions!
Looking primarily for soundstage - full range. I noticed that Pioneer makes a low end 6x8 with a range of 35-22K.
Did a bit of searching, (here first obviously), in the sticky the 2000 fronts are listed as 6x8's.
I've noticed in older threads that everyone talks about the infinities. Are they that good or are they just the best available in the 6x8 size?
Should I stick with 6x8 or are there better options if I drop down to 5x7's? Or would I lose the lower end?
Leaving the rear 6x9's as is... they're not giving me any problems. Current priority are the fronts, followed maybe by a small sub, then the rears.
Greatful for any suggestions!
Thread Starter
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14
Roddimus.... I like your posts.
I've found that there's a 50% chance of sarcasm, 20% flame and around 30% useful information.
For the next reply, my money is on 'flame', afterwhich I'd love some useful information. ;-)
I've found that there's a 50% chance of sarcasm, 20% flame and around 30% useful information.
For the next reply, my money is on 'flame', afterwhich I'd love some useful information. ;-)
The man behind the mask
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,572
From: Birmingham, AL
wow, thats kind of harsh. My posts are only 10% flame ( for the most part) I'm a pretty lighthearted individual so I view sarcasm and humor as one in the same. I also dabble in irony!
I like to consider myself a very helpful person (the main reason I'm a mod) and as such I would offer this up: I'm using the Kenwood Excellon's from the MSP audio system. I've also bought a MSP sub/amp rack for that little exttra punch you're looking for. It works well. I have not tried a 6X8, but the 5X7 works well enough for me and is plenty loud.
Now, since I didn't flame you how much did I win?!?!
I like to consider myself a very helpful person (the main reason I'm a mod) and as such I would offer this up: I'm using the Kenwood Excellon's from the MSP audio system. I've also bought a MSP sub/amp rack for that little exttra punch you're looking for. It works well. I have not tried a 6X8, but the 5X7 works well enough for me and is plenty loud.
Now, since I didn't flame you how much did I win?!?!
The man behind the mask
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,572
From: Birmingham, AL
i dunno how low they CAN go....mine are the factory MSP speakers and for some reason had a bass-blocker soldered onto them from Kenwood. right now there is NO thump from them. I'm sure a retail version of the same speaker would hit much harder.
The man behind the mask
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,572
From: Birmingham, AL
hmm, I thought the factory speaker (2-way) already had a way of seperating the bass to the cone and the treble to the tweeter....why would it need an obviously not-factory bass-blocker?
Thread Starter
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14
The concern is usually capping a speaker like that not to block ALL the bass, just everything below 2200 hertz or so (let the sub take care of that).
Realistically, although the kenwoods might go down to 35hz, they probably drop off below 60 or so anyway, so a cap is just protection.
Realistically, although the kenwoods might go down to 35hz, they probably drop off below 60 or so anyway, so a cap is just protection.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 398
From: Gainesville, FL
For the price, I love my Infinity speakers! I went with the Reference series, and powering them off my Alpine HU (50 x 4) they've got quite a bit of bass response. I set the HU crossover at 90 Hz for the fronts and rears, and at 120 Hz for my JL 12 to keep a slight overlap. This maintains a great full range sound!
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 169
From: Eastern WA
I have a set of alpine 5x7 with a tweet in the mirror... and the sound they put out is incredible to me.... but it could just be me... I've been very happy with them.. even when they were running off of deck power, they sounded pretty good, though now they got the juice :-D so... sound a ton better... just my opinion... so. take it as you would anybody elses.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 160
From: Yakima, WA
FIrst I'm gonna say my obligatory, Go to Protege5.com. It's honestly THE BEST caraudio forum period I've found on the web. Very informative bunch of regulars...
Thatsaid, theworld of speaker shopping is WAY different than an opinions and numbers game. posted numbers on speakers mean jack squat. it's all relative to the manufacturer and can be exaggerated or not. If you go for infinity's Get the refrences, not kappas unless you plan on running an amp, which brings me to another thing. If you aren't running an amp, replacing the front speakers really isn't going to do you WORLDS of good. In fact you'll likely lose some volume seeing as factory speakers are VERY efficient, (they move easily and are lightweight) Aftermarket speakers are generally heavier with stiffer suspensions so they're more accurate, but tae more power to move the same amount. My best advice, is that really everyone's ears and tastes are VERY different. the best thing to do is to make yourself a high quality (non-mp3 try to stick with WAV's) Sample cd. THis disc should include cleanly recorded songs that span the range of your musical tastes. hip-hop, metal, country, etc... try to get a taste of all of what you like, and songs you're familiar with. Personally I like to make sure to have some good strong fem vocals and something with strings. these are where a speaker's true colors will show.
So take this disc, and go listen to as many speakers as you possibly can. Noone cna tell you what sounds better to you, but you sure can. Just try this you'll see some that you've got preconceptions of being awesome are gonna sound like ****, and some shitty speakers are gonna blow your mind. The biggest deal is try to keep everyhtign constant, so if you're not gonna get an amp, then make sure whatever you listen to is off of deck-power alone. And try to use a deck similar to yours, and keep the settings fairly flat. If you're considering an amp, now's a good time to listen to the difference. make the rounds on speakers off of deck power, then switch to pushing them with an amp (50w or so should be good)
Nowthen the real questions for you is do you have a price range? are you considering or would you consider an amp if I told you the difference is WELL worthit and might just amaze you? DO you want drop-in ease, or would you be willing ot make a very simple baffle (oval piece of wood with a round hole cut in it) to open up the vast number of 6.5's out there. The other thing thenis components.
Seperates are generally much nicer simply for the sake of their having nice crossovers. AN ACTUAL crossover that takes the highs out of the midrange speaker, and takes the mids and lows out of a tweeter. Standard coaxile speakers will have "caps" that basically block frequencies lower than say 4khz from the tweeter, this keep the tweeter form being damaged by trying to play notes it wasn't designed for. However these speakers generally don't block the midrange fomr playing highs so basically your highs are being doubled up on and distorted by the large area trying to keep up with them. Nowthen a set of components with a seperate tweeter generally have a crossover that'll block the highs from the mid as well. this is the difference.
Any mid/high speaker will play down pretty low, just not very well, and usually not very comfortably at higher powers. About as low as you're ever gonna hear with any force is about 50hz. Nowthen power handleing is kind of a function of this. If you don't put any form of "bass blocker of Highpass crossover on a 6.5" speaker, it'll likely handle about 40w. with a "high pass" or cap etc taht lets 6's to play down to 50hz, and cuts off, they may be able to handle up to 50w. Up that setting to 80hz (a very common crossover point) and you cna push them with 65 or even more. This is because lower frequencies move a speaker further.
Currently I'm pushign 180w RMS to my kappa's in an effort to try and kill them and they're not only holding up but sounding wonderful at that. Now then I say trying to kill them 'cause they sound horrible to me after doing some speaker shopping. I've prettymuch settles on a set of Boston Accoustics 6.5 pro's ($500 speakers) and they're actualy kind of on the low end of what I was looking to spend. It's all relative, but I'd really reccomend you just go use your own ears and let the tell you.
Thatsaid, theworld of speaker shopping is WAY different than an opinions and numbers game. posted numbers on speakers mean jack squat. it's all relative to the manufacturer and can be exaggerated or not. If you go for infinity's Get the refrences, not kappas unless you plan on running an amp, which brings me to another thing. If you aren't running an amp, replacing the front speakers really isn't going to do you WORLDS of good. In fact you'll likely lose some volume seeing as factory speakers are VERY efficient, (they move easily and are lightweight) Aftermarket speakers are generally heavier with stiffer suspensions so they're more accurate, but tae more power to move the same amount. My best advice, is that really everyone's ears and tastes are VERY different. the best thing to do is to make yourself a high quality (non-mp3 try to stick with WAV's) Sample cd. THis disc should include cleanly recorded songs that span the range of your musical tastes. hip-hop, metal, country, etc... try to get a taste of all of what you like, and songs you're familiar with. Personally I like to make sure to have some good strong fem vocals and something with strings. these are where a speaker's true colors will show.
So take this disc, and go listen to as many speakers as you possibly can. Noone cna tell you what sounds better to you, but you sure can. Just try this you'll see some that you've got preconceptions of being awesome are gonna sound like ****, and some shitty speakers are gonna blow your mind. The biggest deal is try to keep everyhtign constant, so if you're not gonna get an amp, then make sure whatever you listen to is off of deck-power alone. And try to use a deck similar to yours, and keep the settings fairly flat. If you're considering an amp, now's a good time to listen to the difference. make the rounds on speakers off of deck power, then switch to pushing them with an amp (50w or so should be good)
Nowthen the real questions for you is do you have a price range? are you considering or would you consider an amp if I told you the difference is WELL worthit and might just amaze you? DO you want drop-in ease, or would you be willing ot make a very simple baffle (oval piece of wood with a round hole cut in it) to open up the vast number of 6.5's out there. The other thing thenis components.
Seperates are generally much nicer simply for the sake of their having nice crossovers. AN ACTUAL crossover that takes the highs out of the midrange speaker, and takes the mids and lows out of a tweeter. Standard coaxile speakers will have "caps" that basically block frequencies lower than say 4khz from the tweeter, this keep the tweeter form being damaged by trying to play notes it wasn't designed for. However these speakers generally don't block the midrange fomr playing highs so basically your highs are being doubled up on and distorted by the large area trying to keep up with them. Nowthen a set of components with a seperate tweeter generally have a crossover that'll block the highs from the mid as well. this is the difference.
Any mid/high speaker will play down pretty low, just not very well, and usually not very comfortably at higher powers. About as low as you're ever gonna hear with any force is about 50hz. Nowthen power handleing is kind of a function of this. If you don't put any form of "bass blocker of Highpass crossover on a 6.5" speaker, it'll likely handle about 40w. with a "high pass" or cap etc taht lets 6's to play down to 50hz, and cuts off, they may be able to handle up to 50w. Up that setting to 80hz (a very common crossover point) and you cna push them with 65 or even more. This is because lower frequencies move a speaker further.
Currently I'm pushign 180w RMS to my kappa's in an effort to try and kill them and they're not only holding up but sounding wonderful at that. Now then I say trying to kill them 'cause they sound horrible to me after doing some speaker shopping. I've prettymuch settles on a set of Boston Accoustics 6.5 pro's ($500 speakers) and they're actualy kind of on the low end of what I was looking to spend. It's all relative, but I'd really reccomend you just go use your own ears and let the tell you.