My new install - stage 2 - fiberglass (pics)
April-6th-2003, 09:32 AM
#1
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
My new install - stage 2 - fiberglass (pics)
The glassing has begun - yay!
A few notes on this process:
I have never done ANY fiberglass before, but I've read a lot and looked at a ton of pictures and how-to's.
Fiberglass is not easy, as I have found out. I think the enclosure I am working on is quite an ambitious undertaking for a first-timer. Several times already, I was thinking "what the hell have I gotten myself into - I have no clue what I'm doing and this is not working out well." The vertical surfaces, the difficult curves - it all made for some not-so-easy work for a newbie like me. I realized 5 minutes into the project that it was not going to be the fun time I though it would.
But I labored through it, and hopefully when this mold cures, it will be what I need it to be.
Anyways - pics!
^ Here is the "tape-up". I actually did this yesterday. The black line is a guide, so I know where the limit of the glassing will be - I don't want or need to extend anything beyond the line, and knew I'd probably wind up well within it. I used about 100 yards of tape to do all this, and it took some time. The jack panel is gone, as is the jack itself - this was the most difficult part of the taping - creating a layer of tape almost in "mid-air"
^ The first layer of 'glass goes on. This was pure hell. The glass mat and resin seem to stick to everything except where you want. This is why I feel the vertical surfaces were tough for a newbie, especially that dreaded jack storage area.
^ And this is where I'm at now. Most of this has 4-5 layers of fiberglass. I'm now in the waiting stages - I will let this cure for several hours, then *try* to pull the mold from the car.
Some more notes:
Things do get easier as the layers pile up. I tried to do as much as I could all at once, layer after layer. Putting new mat on top of a sticky layer isn't too bad - just kinda press it in there, and it'll hold. But the first layer was very difficult to get positioned and done - quite frustrating, and I wound up really slopping the resin on there, just to get everything wet and sticky.
I also found that tearing the mat is better than cutting it. First I was using scissors to cut manageable pieces and stick them on. But once my hands were a complete mess, I decided to just rip the pieces off. This worked MUCH better - the hanging strands of fiberglass gripped the sticky surface better, and by "breaking" the "weave" of the mat, the pieces were much easier to mold into curves without wrinkling. Wish I had know that early on......
This is a ******* MESSY PROJECT. Don't even think about doing it without laying down something to protect the surrounding area, and using gloves. I went through 4 pairs of latex gloves just doing what you see so far. They get sticky, resin-y, and filled with strands, and eventually become unuseable.
I really doubted if I should continue trying this a times during the build-up - it's not easy stuff to work with. I think making a spare-tire tub would be cake - but working on these vertical surfaces and such takes some patience.
But I'm on my way - and glad I muddled through this stage. HOPEFULLY - things will get easier from here.
Updates to come!
~HH
A few notes on this process:
I have never done ANY fiberglass before, but I've read a lot and looked at a ton of pictures and how-to's.
Fiberglass is not easy, as I have found out. I think the enclosure I am working on is quite an ambitious undertaking for a first-timer. Several times already, I was thinking "what the hell have I gotten myself into - I have no clue what I'm doing and this is not working out well." The vertical surfaces, the difficult curves - it all made for some not-so-easy work for a newbie like me. I realized 5 minutes into the project that it was not going to be the fun time I though it would.
But I labored through it, and hopefully when this mold cures, it will be what I need it to be.
Anyways - pics!
^ Here is the "tape-up". I actually did this yesterday. The black line is a guide, so I know where the limit of the glassing will be - I don't want or need to extend anything beyond the line, and knew I'd probably wind up well within it. I used about 100 yards of tape to do all this, and it took some time. The jack panel is gone, as is the jack itself - this was the most difficult part of the taping - creating a layer of tape almost in "mid-air"
^ The first layer of 'glass goes on. This was pure hell. The glass mat and resin seem to stick to everything except where you want. This is why I feel the vertical surfaces were tough for a newbie, especially that dreaded jack storage area.
^ And this is where I'm at now. Most of this has 4-5 layers of fiberglass. I'm now in the waiting stages - I will let this cure for several hours, then *try* to pull the mold from the car.
Some more notes:
Things do get easier as the layers pile up. I tried to do as much as I could all at once, layer after layer. Putting new mat on top of a sticky layer isn't too bad - just kinda press it in there, and it'll hold. But the first layer was very difficult to get positioned and done - quite frustrating, and I wound up really slopping the resin on there, just to get everything wet and sticky.
I also found that tearing the mat is better than cutting it. First I was using scissors to cut manageable pieces and stick them on. But once my hands were a complete mess, I decided to just rip the pieces off. This worked MUCH better - the hanging strands of fiberglass gripped the sticky surface better, and by "breaking" the "weave" of the mat, the pieces were much easier to mold into curves without wrinkling. Wish I had know that early on......
This is a ******* MESSY PROJECT. Don't even think about doing it without laying down something to protect the surrounding area, and using gloves. I went through 4 pairs of latex gloves just doing what you see so far. They get sticky, resin-y, and filled with strands, and eventually become unuseable.
I really doubted if I should continue trying this a times during the build-up - it's not easy stuff to work with. I think making a spare-tire tub would be cake - but working on these vertical surfaces and such takes some patience.
But I'm on my way - and glad I muddled through this stage. HOPEFULLY - things will get easier from here.
Updates to come!
~HH
April-6th-2003, 12:03 PM
#4
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Wow - things have progressed well in just a few short hours!
I popped the mold out of the car - this was a little tough! In my haste to get started, I forgot to use some mold-release agent (i was planning on a light layer of Vaseline). So things were rather stuck. After some hard tugging, though, I got the mold out.
Now inside, I had to play with the angles of the subs to figure out exactly how they'd be mounted. I thought I was going to have more room than I do. Originally, I was going to mount the subs aiming the same direction - as though they were mounted on one piece of wood. I even debated making a "figure-8" baffle ring earlier on - boy, am I glad I didn't!
Working with limited space (I really need as much hatch room as possible - the line on the tape in the previous set of pics is basically the outer limit of where my box can go), turns out I had to angle the drivers to have enough clearance for the magnets in back. Finding just the right positions to fit them both without interference was a challenge.
But after lots of 3/8" dowel cutting, quite a few hot-glue sticks, and some mildly abrasive language, here's what I've got:
Hot glue is the best! With those braces in place, the rings are actually already strong enough to support the subs if they were screwed in place. Once the front is done, it will be plenty strong.
I am going to hit the back panel with at least one more layer of 'glass - both for added strength, and to "embed" the dowels in the fiberglass. This will allow them to also work as interior bracing to stiffen the enclosure when it's finished.
I must say - fiberglass is COOL stuff! I mean, it was nothing but a sloppy, soupy mess a few hours ago - I was doubting how strong it could actually be. But now that it is cured, it's HELLA strong. I'd bet I could stand on the back of the enclosure (without the rings, of course
).
Well, that'll be it - for today, at least. I'm out of glass mat, almost out of resin, and I'm too tired to go to the store for more or do any more work on it. I got a lot done today - more than I planned.
And you know I'll keep the updates coming!
~HH
I popped the mold out of the car - this was a little tough! In my haste to get started, I forgot to use some mold-release agent (i was planning on a light layer of Vaseline). So things were rather stuck. After some hard tugging, though, I got the mold out.
Now inside, I had to play with the angles of the subs to figure out exactly how they'd be mounted. I thought I was going to have more room than I do. Originally, I was going to mount the subs aiming the same direction - as though they were mounted on one piece of wood. I even debated making a "figure-8" baffle ring earlier on - boy, am I glad I didn't!
Working with limited space (I really need as much hatch room as possible - the line on the tape in the previous set of pics is basically the outer limit of where my box can go), turns out I had to angle the drivers to have enough clearance for the magnets in back. Finding just the right positions to fit them both without interference was a challenge.
But after lots of 3/8" dowel cutting, quite a few hot-glue sticks, and some mildly abrasive language, here's what I've got:
Hot glue is the best! With those braces in place, the rings are actually already strong enough to support the subs if they were screwed in place. Once the front is done, it will be plenty strong.
I am going to hit the back panel with at least one more layer of 'glass - both for added strength, and to "embed" the dowels in the fiberglass. This will allow them to also work as interior bracing to stiffen the enclosure when it's finished.
I must say - fiberglass is COOL stuff! I mean, it was nothing but a sloppy, soupy mess a few hours ago - I was doubting how strong it could actually be. But now that it is cured, it's HELLA strong. I'd bet I could stand on the back of the enclosure (without the rings, of course
).Well, that'll be it - for today, at least. I'm out of glass mat, almost out of resin, and I'm too tired to go to the store for more or do any more work on it. I got a lot done today - more than I planned.
And you know I'll keep the updates coming!
~HH
April-6th-2003, 04:32 PM
#8
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Originally posted by walight01
about how much internal volume do you expect?
about how much internal volume do you expect?
My best guess right now is between .6 and .7 per sub - so a total of about 1.2-1.4 cu/ft.
I am going to measure it out once things progress a little further - maybe using the "fill it with styrofoam peanuts" method of estimation. I might actually have more than 1.4.
Tough to tell right now.
~HH
April-6th-2003, 05:54 PM
#9
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 36
I dunno,
Those pics look photo-shopped to me... HiHo doesn't have what it takes to undertake a project like this...
Dude, i'm jealous... You know, you should make a shell for me... I'll pay top $$$ (7$)
Actually you should make 10 shells.. sell them to the P5 joy luck club kiddies...
good work dude... sniff some fumes for me..
Those pics look photo-shopped to me... HiHo doesn't have what it takes to undertake a project like this...
Dude, i'm jealous... You know, you should make a shell for me... I'll pay top $$$ (7$)
Actually you should make 10 shells.. sell them to the P5 joy luck club kiddies...
good work dude... sniff some fumes for me..
April-6th-2003, 10:12 PM
#12
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Originally posted by walight01
my question why didn't you put the enclosure on the other side so you would have to mess with the jack and stuff??
my question why didn't you put the enclosure on the other side so you would have to mess with the jack and stuff??
). Since I need this to be as compact as possible, the jack-side of the hatch has a larger area for the back of the enclosure (the driver's side wheel well trim is larger, because the fuel filler pipe runs on that side). And removing the jack panel gives me another .2-.3 cubic feet of airspace, plus a place to secure the enclosure to the car - a definite win-win. It was the logical place.
how did you go about putting the first layer on, did you just put the resin on the tape and try to stick the strands of glass to it??
~HH
April-6th-2003, 10:28 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
i've seen people take like a sweater and glue it to the tape, put resin on it and then start doing the layers. does this seem logical??? ok on what you've done so far, how much has it cost for just the fiberglass, not the mdf?? how many hours did it take to do the all the layers?? i'm REALLY interested in doing this now that i've seen first hand a beginner do it 
good work
good work
April-7th-2003, 03:58 AM
#14
Show Layne some respect
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
I bought two 9 sq/ft packs of mat, (I also picked up a package of cloth - woven fiberglass, haven't used it yet), and two 32 oz cans of resin (so a gallon) - cost about $50, I think. I think the glass was $10 per pack, and the resin $20 per can. I think - I should find the receipt.
I also did have to buy the brushes, gloves, mixing buckets, etc - and I'll need another two packs of mat, and I'll probably get another 2 cans of resin, too. I think the stuff I got is kinda expensive, but it still will wind up being right around $100 in fiberglass materials by the time I'm done. Not too bad.
The problem I see with gluing anything to the tape, is that without a release agent, the mold was hard enough to pop out of the car. And glue would make it even harder, I think. From what I can tell, tearing the mat rather than cutting it would have helped. I also dove right in, and attacked the area I though would wold be most difficult first - like the curves and stuff. So as my frustration level grew, so did the amount of resin I slopped on.....
I still think a spare tire tub or other non-vertical project should be really easy. But this was a pain to start off. Not trying to dissuade you from giving it a shot - just know that it's not as easy as it looks. My confidence was broken quickly - but I just kept going.
~HH
I also did have to buy the brushes, gloves, mixing buckets, etc - and I'll need another two packs of mat, and I'll probably get another 2 cans of resin, too. I think the stuff I got is kinda expensive, but it still will wind up being right around $100 in fiberglass materials by the time I'm done. Not too bad.
The problem I see with gluing anything to the tape, is that without a release agent, the mold was hard enough to pop out of the car. And glue would make it even harder, I think. From what I can tell, tearing the mat rather than cutting it would have helped. I also dove right in, and attacked the area I though would wold be most difficult first
- like the curves and stuff. So as my frustration level grew, so did the amount of resin I slopped on.....I still think a spare tire tub or other non-vertical project should be really easy. But this was a pain to start off. Not trying to dissuade you from giving it a shot - just know that it's not as easy as it looks. My confidence was broken quickly - but I just kept going.
~HH
April-7th-2003, 04:05 AM
#15
Macklum Forever
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Deep River,Ontario Canada
Posts: 390
Measuring volume of enclosure
FYI to measure your inclosure when it is done you can fill it with water . 28.5 liters= 1 cubic foot . just measure the water you put in then do the math. This very accurate . Oh yeah ,use a garbage bag inside your enclosure to prevent it getting wet .