ProtegeMaster

I've long had my eye on the Kenwood X859 MP3/CD deck,



I've also recently been considering the Pioneer DEH-P8400MP,



The Kenwood deck I've liked, as you can adjust button color to red, which would better match the stock color scheme in my ES. Also, the X859 specs says it can display ID3 tags from MP3 files; something I insist on having so you can note track name, artist, etc.. The serious concern I have about the X859, however, is that Crutchfield says it doesn't fit in the Protege. Can anyone confirm this?

And about the Pioneer, I also like this deck, and Crutchfield says it fits in the Protege, but nowhere in the specs does it say it displays ID3 tags from MP3 files. It says it'll display CD-Text, but it doesn't say anything about ID3. If it doesn't display track names, etc. from MP3 files then the show's off-- I'd never buy the Pioneer. Anyone know if the DEH-P8400MP can display ID3 tags?

If the Pioneer can display ID3 tags, then this could well be the deck I go for. It's less expensive than the Kenwood, and has a cool flip down feature to show the "Organic EL" display (which the Kenwood doesn't have).

I've figured this information might be hard to come by, but was hoping I might be lucky and someone out there has any one of these decks in their Pros, and can tell me for sure about whether they fit/display ID3 tags.

Thanks!

ProtegeMaster

Excellent, blue LEDz, thanks for the advice.

The main thing remains, though, can the X859 indeed fit in the Protege even though Crutchfield seems to claim it can't?

Rider69

Actually as far as the Pioneer is concerned, if you get teh Premier model (DEH-P840MP) then you get a 2 year warranty. Personally I like the larger buttons and the larger rotary **** on the Pioneer (I have a 9300 model) but do wish I could change the colors.

hihoslva

Just a few words of opinion here, but ID3 tags are not all they're cracked up to be. Basically, it's useless eye candy.

I say this, because NO deck I have ever seen scrolls the ID3 tag before the track plays. ID3 is totally useless as a navigation tool - if you could browse through a list of tracks using the tags, that'd be AWESOME. But the tag doesn't show until the track starts playing - so what's the point?

On my Kenwood, I scrolled the tags for the first two days, then turned it off. It's damn distracting, and I prefer to have a simple clock. Occasionally I turn it back on if I have a friend in the car just to get the "wow - cool" reaction - but then I shut it off again because it's so annoying to look at (or to try NOT to look at ).

I'm still waiting on the next generation of MP3 CD players, that should have true navigation control. With 250 tracks or so on one disc, that part of the technology badly needs to be updated.

But I still LOVE my MP3s!!

Just my $.02 on your decision-making process.

~HH

ProtegeMaster

Oh man-- That was part of my interest in securing an MP3 deck; not just to be able to play them and note what's currently being played, but also to work as a navigation tool. I like the idea of being able to navigate to a specific artist/track I or (more safely) a passenger wants. Like throw together a 70's disc with artists in their own folders, etc., and be able to have people choose what they want to play based on what they're scrolling through (before a track is played, that is).

Alas, if we can't truly navigate I might have to wait until a deck comes out (that’s affordable) that allows for such control.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, everyone.

hihoslva

Yep - this is my only real complaint about MP3 CD decks right now. Unfortunately, it's the same deal across the entire line of MP3 decks, regardless of manufacturer.

Navigating is not THAT bad - I mean, if you set up your discs in a logical order, you can navigate by memory. I generally rip MP3s from original CDs, so I will typically put each album into its own folder - this helps me to find what I want. And if I have a downloaded track, I try to "add" it to the end of an album, or create another artist folder with nothing but the downloaded tracks from that particular band.

But the ID3 tags really are useless for navigation. I certainly hope the technology takes the leap to better navigation soon! It's really the only thing holding me back from picking up a new/better deck.

But you'll LOVE MP3! I will never buy another regular CD deck for the car - if it doesn't have MP3 capability, I don't even look at it now.

~HH

mixmaster_matt

I like the pioneer better, just for the looks alone. I really haven't been too impressed with the Kenwood look yet, and since I have a Pioneer I am a little biased towards it. And BLUE, the remote control pushes the volume up fast and lowers it fast, but the ***** don't move it up or down that fast. The remotes on the pioneers are great, i never thought I would use it but once I got used to it I can't stand not having it.

hihoslva

Four words - "steering wheel remote control". I don't have one (Kenwood doesn't make a wireless one - WTF??), but Pioneer has a very nice one - supposed to work with any of their decks.

Aiwa has a nice one too - but IMO Aiwa makes crappy decks (from opinions and problmes I've read about, and lack of features)

And Blaupunkt also makes the "Thummer" remote. But I personally don't like the looks of most of the Blaus.

Kenwood's is the worst I've seen - it's wired (ugh), and the buttons are on the BACK of the unit - I guess that might be okay once you get used to it, but I prefer to see the buttons I'm pushing.

A nice steering wheel remote would be the only reason I'd swap decks at this point - probably to a Pioneer. Otherwise, I'm gonna wait for better file management and navigation from the next generation of MP3 decks (*keeps fingers crossed*)

~HH

ProtegeMaster

I'm actually really surprised electronics manufacturers never implemented ID3 navigation on MP3 CD's in the first place. It seems like a total no brainer to me. To that effect, I just wrote a letter castigating Kenwood for not having a deck that offers this feature. As many know, I’m a pretty critical individual, and why the hell no one has included this feature in a deck I know not. How stupid is that, not including the ability to choose what track you want to play based on navigating?

I mean, common already.

Geeze.

hihoslva

I think the problem has to do with the way ID3 tags are created and read, and the software integrated into decks.

ID3 tags are "embedded" in the file, it's not truly a filename. In order to extract the ID3 info, the deck needs to load the entire track and decipher the ID3 along with the MP3 data. The tag includes all the info you want it to - but most programs that embed the tags (especially automatic tagging like what is found on the MP3 encoding software for Windows Media Player in XP) put ALL the info in the file; track name, number, artist, album, year, genre, etc. etc. Decks only read a portion of that anyway. It also lengthens the time it takes to load a track - if you shut off the ID3 reading (not just the display of them, but the reading also) it reduces the gap between tracks.

What is necessary is new deck programming that would allow quick reading of file NAMES, not just the ID3 tag. Then we may be able to get some good displays with true navigation ability. Or maybe a combination of new decks and new naming software, that could put the information in a more accessible place for the decks to read, or does not embed them in the track.

Complaining to Kenwood is good, I guess - trouble is, this is not Kenwood's technology. All manufacturers have the same limitations in file navigation when using ID3 tag display. Your complaint might get the word out that we as consumers want more. Hopefully, Kenwood or someone else will develop a new system of file management soon.

~HH

ProtegeMaster

>Hopefully, Kenwood or someone else will develop a new system of file management soon.

You said it, hihoslva!

I sent a note to Kenwood largely because they seem to be among the leaders in car stereo equipment, and surely have a lot of resources behind them. With that, they could be among those who go out and develop the correct read scheme technology.

On that note, embedded ID tags have been used commonly before, and it shouldn’t be that intensive to read (as in, it shouldn’t pose prohibitive problems in terms of access speed). The Classic Mac OS series has from the beginning used Resource Forks-- Basically embedded ID tags (no PC-esque file suffixes) in its file system. I’ve long felt this a more elegant, transparent identification system, personally, and more "idiot proof" in preventing people from renaming their files and forgetting to include the .xxx ID suffix-- And it never caused appreciable delays in file identification for the Mac OS (it was the old Mac OS itself that caused delay problems, actually- It sucked ***, in my professional opinion, from an “under the hood” standpoint. The user interface was awesome, however).

ID3 tags in an MP3 file are always put in the same place in a file, regardless of how large it is, just like the Classic Mac OS Resource Fork. It’s a bit more complex, as you’ve multiple strings representing Artist, Song Title, Genre, etc., but it’s all standardized and in the same place, and with a fast enough drive and dedicated hardware designed expressly for the purpose of identifying ID3 data, it shouldn’t take that long. Another alternative would be to include a cache buffer large enough to accommodate a full catalog of a disc’s contents. Allow for a little delay when you first insert your disc so that the system can scan its complete contents, store that scan in a nice little memory buffer, and you’re good to go; instantly. No delays at all as you scroll through your disc's contents, as it's read out of memory instead of from the actual disc!

THAT’S what I’m talkin’ about! Woo hoo!

Nicholasp27

i'd choose pioneer over kenwood any day

Nicholasp27

pioneer seems to have much a better reliability and owner happiness record

also, voltage doesn't really matter, as u match it to ur amp gains anyway..and that 4 or 4.5 is max anyway

the pioneer is xm radio ready compared to kenwood's sirius ready

pioneer looks better

pioneer is cheaper (only 359 @ ikesound.com)

a lot of kenwood's features are useless unless u hook up an excelon amp (please don't)

hihoslva

I've owned several Kenwoods, and have never encountered any reliability problems whatsoever.

I do agree that Pioneer makes better looking decks, and Kenwood's interfaces can be confusing - too many multiple-use buttons; hold for 2 secs to do this, press a different button first, then do that - I've had mine for quite a while and still can't remember how to do certain things. Overall, though, I'm happy with my Kenny.

One gripe I have heard about Pioneer IS the seek time between MP3 tracks - one of the longest delays of any manufacturer from what I've read.

But for reliability, I think Kenwood is near the top - just from my own experiences. However, I have not heard any bad reports about Pioneer either.

~HH

MackDaddy

(It's the Premier model.) Had it in my WRX for some time, and now in the P5. Great sound, decent looks, and functionality. I find no issue with 4V preouts, either (only using non-fade sub outs to a JL 300/2.) My total system package is more than enough for me.... but that's coming from a 40 year olds perspective mind you!