Has anyone upgraded their Alternator on a P5?
February-6th-2003, 12:34 PM
#2
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
seems to me that Blue LEDz discussed this once. The Protege has circuits like the ICs controlling on the alternator and in the engine bay both, which may make a alternator a tricky project at least on the last three years worth of production. I have read in some manual somewhere for the Protege that the car CPU in involved in the recording of alternator info for engine control.
The general caveats I give folks on alternators would be first kiss any warrenty issues for both the car and the audio hardware good bye. Second, don't radically over amp the car, the engine shafts that run the alternator were designed with the intention of a specific size and amp alternator, so the bearing sets, the torque of the shaft, the speed of revolution were all set as part of the design.
I have one on the SQ sound car I have, but I do not drive the car as a daily user, and I would not suggest doing so on a smaller engined car with a ho alternator.
The general caveats I give folks on alternators would be first kiss any warrenty issues for both the car and the audio hardware good bye. Second, don't radically over amp the car, the engine shafts that run the alternator were designed with the intention of a specific size and amp alternator, so the bearing sets, the torque of the shaft, the speed of revolution were all set as part of the design.
I have one on the SQ sound car I have, but I do not drive the car as a daily user, and I would not suggest doing so on a smaller engined car with a ho alternator.
February-6th-2003, 12:38 PM
#3
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Location: Gainesville/Miami FL
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So if my planned system has amps that require too much amperage, I should find smaller amps? Also, suppose I have two amps.. one has a 25amp fuse and other has 40amp fuse... would I need to get an inline fuse holder with a fuse higher than 60amps?
February-6th-2003, 09:25 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 720
My alternator, AC delco 180 amp, cuased no problems other then a battery light. However it may be cuasing some adverse effects in combo with my turbo.
With the alternator and install the setup cost me $600. I may be selling mine, although not a definite yet.
With the alternator and install the setup cost me $600. I may be selling mine, although not a definite yet.
February-6th-2003, 10:15 PM
#5
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You know what, I think I'm just gonna go the safe route and get smaller amps.. Maybe some profiles that are 40 amps each..(300x1 and a 50x4) which will be 80 amps total.. but I'll rarely turn up the volume all the way up... plus I'll get a 1 farad cap too just in case. And I'll also run 4 gauge power and grounds. Oh and maybe a Red Top battery.
February-6th-2003, 10:19 PM
#6
Protege Owner
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 720
Fi you are considering a large system to the point of a new alternator then you would neec sveral caps and 1/0 power wire run to the alternator and the system.
Just so you know I was using a stock AC delco alternator, not rewound.
Just so you know I was using a stock AC delco alternator, not rewound.
February-7th-2003, 02:59 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
Posts: 147
hey blueLEDz: I was just recently looking into upgrading my alt (stock one is finally taking a dump), and I have a 1.6. What's this about the dual voltage regulator causing a problem? There's an alternator place around here that says he'll re-build mine and wind it so it'll push around 95 amps for less than $100, but he may not be aware of the dual voltage regulators. any input?
February-7th-2003, 12:51 PM
#8
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
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very true. The guy at the shop has no idea about the dual voltage regulator setup. It's kind of a ghetto shop, so I figured that much.
But I guess it couldn't hurt to try, right? For around $100, if it doesn't work right, I could always just buy the right one again and only be out the $100, as long as it doesn't cause any serious damage to any electrical components, which I doubt, because 1st MP3 has been running his for awhile now. My system really only draws about 80 amps or so. I guess worst case scenerio, I could just run a dual battery setup with a seperate isolated yellow top for the amps or throw like 5 one farad caps and put the yellow top under the hood. what do u think?
But I guess it couldn't hurt to try, right? For around $100, if it doesn't work right, I could always just buy the right one again and only be out the $100, as long as it doesn't cause any serious damage to any electrical components, which I doubt, because 1st MP3 has been running his for awhile now. My system really only draws about 80 amps or so. I guess worst case scenerio, I could just run a dual battery setup with a seperate isolated yellow top for the amps or throw like 5 one farad caps and put the yellow top under the hood. what do u think?
February-8th-2003, 11:06 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
Posts: 147
just out of curiosity, what are you running for a battery? optima? I understand that if I do decide to run the second battery, and I do isolate it, crank it with the car off, and start the car on the primary battery under the hood, there will be a hard draw on the alt. charging both batteries, am I correct? so I'll probably still need to bump up to around 100 amps or so, run a deep cycle for the stereo (isolated), run a standard battery for the rest of the car, and turn the stereo off when the batteries are charging (only when I've drained the deep cycle and started the car on the primary batt.) am I stupid here, or does that sound about right?
February-9th-2003, 10:40 AM
#10
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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B-Real:
I have a total of about 700 watts in my system, between two amps and even the HU powering the rear speakers.
4 guage wiring, NO caps (useless! read up!) and my lights only dim under the most extreme of volume levels. The 80 amp alt on the P5 is indeed quite good.
Many people recommend 1 farad of cap per 500 watts. But caps are NOT designed for daily driver systems. In fact, they are really made for those who compete, especially with the car OFF. They hold a charge, and release it quicker than the battery can. But then thay have to recharge again. Caps are useful is competition, for "burps" - short duration hits of bass for dB measurements.
Most systems that "benefit" from capacitors would actually see MORE benefit from a simple wiring upgrade - using better gauge grounds and wires for the alternator and battery connections - not just what goes to the stereo, but that which is integrated into the car's electrical system.
MHO, don't waste your money. Again, I have 700 or so watts total, and barely any light dimming. Plus, my amps are all A/B, which are far less efficient that class D amps. With a D for the bass and A/B for the door speakers, you shouldn't need a cap. If your lights dim, upgrade the other wiring first.
Always try the cheapest solution first, so long as it is not some jerry-rigged crappy method.
~HH
I have a total of about 700 watts in my system, between two amps and even the HU powering the rear speakers.
4 guage wiring, NO caps (useless! read up!) and my lights only dim under the most extreme of volume levels. The 80 amp alt on the P5 is indeed quite good.
Many people recommend 1 farad of cap per 500 watts. But caps are NOT designed for daily driver systems. In fact, they are really made for those who compete, especially with the car OFF. They hold a charge, and release it quicker than the battery can. But then thay have to recharge again. Caps are useful is competition, for "burps" - short duration hits of bass for dB measurements.
Most systems that "benefit" from capacitors would actually see MORE benefit from a simple wiring upgrade - using better gauge grounds and wires for the alternator and battery connections - not just what goes to the stereo, but that which is integrated into the car's electrical system.
MHO, don't waste your money. Again, I have 700 or so watts total, and barely any light dimming. Plus, my amps are all A/B, which are far less efficient that class D amps. With a D for the bass and A/B for the door speakers, you shouldn't need a cap. If your lights dim, upgrade the other wiring first.
Always try the cheapest solution first, so long as it is not some jerry-rigged crappy method.
~HH
February-9th-2003, 12:56 PM
#11
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hihoslva,
There you go again! Thanks for the tips! The reason I was so worried about the lights dimming was because I was told that the P5 alt is only 60amps?
Thats why I was worried about not having enough power. Yes, I was also planning on regrounding the alt and the battery.. perhaps with 4 gauge wiring. Ok, I think this is my final setup ...
Alpine CDA-7893 Head Unit
Infinity Kappa 60.5 Components (Front)
Infinity Kappa 62.5 Coaxials (Rear)
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 4ohm sub
US Acoustics USX2100 300watts x 1 RMS @ 4ohm
US Acoustics USX4065 65watts x 4 RMS @ 4ohm
4 gauge power/ground, 60amp fuse, etc.
There you go again! Thanks for the tips! The reason I was so worried about the lights dimming was because I was told that the P5 alt is only 60amps?
Thats why I was worried about not having enough power. Yes, I was also planning on regrounding the alt and the battery.. perhaps with 4 gauge wiring. Ok, I think this is my final setup ...Alpine CDA-7893 Head Unit
Infinity Kappa 60.5 Components (Front)
Infinity Kappa 62.5 Coaxials (Rear)
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 4ohm sub
US Acoustics USX2100 300watts x 1 RMS @ 4ohm
US Acoustics USX4065 65watts x 4 RMS @ 4ohm
4 gauge power/ground, 60amp fuse, etc.
February-9th-2003, 01:21 PM
#12
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
I think your setup sounds excellent.
One thing - I think the Perfect is a dual VC sub, so make sure you get the dual 2 ohm version - then you can safely wire the sub to the amp @ 4 ohms.
Other than that, things sound good - and you're gonna love it!
Good work on doing your research - it makes all the difference. I've learned what little I know through trial and error (read: costly buying of inferior components trying to save money, then not being satisfied and re-buying the stuff I should have bought in the first place).
Don't bother with re-wiring the alt and such unless you get the stereo in and feel you need to. I mean, it's not a bad idea, but why put in the time and effort if it's not necessary. It can easily be done afterward if you want.
Oh yeah - and www.knukonceptz.com for wire!! Excellent prices, and a solid company to deal with. Also, www.ikesound.com and www.bsless.com are great sites for equipment.
Good luck!
~HH
One thing - I think the Perfect is a dual VC sub, so make sure you get the dual 2 ohm version - then you can safely wire the sub to the amp @ 4 ohms.
Other than that, things sound good - and you're gonna love it!
Good work on doing your research - it makes all the difference. I've learned what little I know through trial and error (read: costly buying of inferior components trying to save money, then not being satisfied and re-buying the stuff I should have bought in the first place).
Don't bother with re-wiring the alt and such unless you get the stereo in and feel you need to. I mean, it's not a bad idea, but why put in the time and effort if it's not necessary. It can easily be done afterward if you want.
Oh yeah - and www.knukonceptz.com for wire!! Excellent prices, and a solid company to deal with. Also, www.ikesound.com and www.bsless.com are great sites for equipment.
Good luck!
~HH
February-9th-2003, 03:01 PM
#13
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
Just to restate here-
Don't sweat getting the alternator double wound, or replacing it yet. Install the system, and see how it does. I had to get systems well over 1000 watts before I started really needing charging/ power system upgrades of that extreme nature. I don't anticipate needing a alternator upgrade with the 1350 watts or so I will be running in the Mazdaspeed later this summer.
Your choices are first rate and should make for a good solid system.
Let us all know how the install goes, anyone here will provide any help we can!
Don't sweat getting the alternator double wound, or replacing it yet. Install the system, and see how it does. I had to get systems well over 1000 watts before I started really needing charging/ power system upgrades of that extreme nature. I don't anticipate needing a alternator upgrade with the 1350 watts or so I will be running in the Mazdaspeed later this summer.
Your choices are first rate and should make for a good solid system.
Let us all know how the install goes, anyone here will provide any help we can!
February-9th-2003, 03:57 PM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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hihoslva - The Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 comes in a 4ohm version and a DVC version of 2-8ohms. I'll be getting the single VC unless there's another added benefit from DVC? I really dont want to amp the run at 2ohms.. it'll just create more heat.
Dave - Ya true, another reason I was worried is because I used to have a "weak" system in a Saturn. It had two JBL amps, 150x2, and a 50x4 with 2x 12" Kicker Comps and Cerwin Vega fronts/rears. The Saturns alt burned out so many times from this system.. and the lights dimmed all the time when I played my music. But I guess the alt on a Saturn is smaller than the one on a P5.
Dave - Ya true, another reason I was worried is because I used to have a "weak" system in a Saturn. It had two JBL amps, 150x2, and a 50x4 with 2x 12" Kicker Comps and Cerwin Vega fronts/rears. The Saturns alt burned out so many times from this system.. and the lights dimmed all the time when I played my music. But I guess the alt on a Saturn is smaller than the one on a P5.
Last edited by b_real45; February-9th-2003 at 03:59 PM.
February-9th-2003, 04:08 PM
#15
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
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Originally posted by b_real45
hihoslva - The Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 comes in a 4ohm version and a DVC version of 2-8ohms. I'll be getting the single VC unless there's another added benefit from DVC? I really dont want to amp to run at 2ohms.. it'll just create more heat.
hihoslva - The Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 comes in a 4ohm version and a DVC version of 2-8ohms. I'll be getting the single VC unless there's another added benefit from DVC? I really dont want to amp to run at 2ohms.. it'll just create more heat.
Are you just doing the single sub now? If so, of course use whichever mates to your amp best. I also thought you were going to go with two subs, so the wiring and impedance configuration had more options.
Either way, pop the Perfect in a decent size box (I think you mentioned 1.5 cubes, before adding the sub - sounds excellent) and it will sing nicely.
Hope I didn't confuse you before, because I seem to have been confused myself! I can see clearly now, the rain is gone.....
You're well on your way to an excellent sounding system. Nothing beats that first time you tune everything in pretty good (before the real tweaking of course), and put on your current favorite song. Personally, I love to test any new system with "Tom Sawyer" by Rush - something about the way it drops in, the synth frequency sweeps, and the clarity of the instruments makes it an excellent test track, IMHO. Oh yeah - and "The Grudge" by Tool is another kick-*** track to pump the volume.
~HH