Racing Beat or Ground Controls on MP3
April-7th-2002, 11:51 PM
#1
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Racing Beat or Ground Controls on MP3
Heya, I'm wondering if anyone has dropped a MP3 on Racing Beat springs? The MP3 is only ~.1-.2 inches lower than a stock Protege according to mazdausa.com specs, and Racing Beat Springs drop about .875 on a stock protege (so .75 on a MP3). All I want is to get rid of some/most of the gap between the fender-wheel. Will the Racing Beats do this? Or will I need GCs?
How hard is it to install springs? I'll probably have to get them installed professionally. How much does this typically cost? An alignment is in order after lowering a car, correct? Thanks!
Chris
How hard is it to install springs? I'll probably have to get them installed professionally. How much does this typically cost? An alignment is in order after lowering a car, correct? Thanks!
Chris
April-8th-2002, 01:05 AM
#2
Super Ninja
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Goldsboro NC
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I lowered my MP3 with the coilovers I bought from www.Protege5online.com it is fairly simple to do with a friend the back is the hardest you have to go through the back seats but very easy to do with a friend for help you do not need a spring compressor or anything like that yes get and alightment, toe and camber. Mazda did mine afterwards about $68.00 or $63.00 so not bad at all. Do it yourself you will save lots of cash.
April-8th-2002, 08:19 AM
#3
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The Racing Beat springs are basically the same as the MP3 springs. Remember that the MP3 uses slightly taller wheels and tires than a regular Protege (~24.3" overall diameter vs. ~23.4"). In other words, the MP3 springs DO lower the car as much as the MP3 springs, it's just that the taller tires raise it back up 
I would not expect the Racing Beat springs to lower the car much, if they lower it at all. Eibach and H&R springs both advertise more lowering. GC's would work too.
I would not expect the Racing Beat springs to lower the car much, if they lower it at all. Eibach and H&R springs both advertise more lowering. GC's would work too.
April-8th-2002, 09:06 AM
#4
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CarGuy,
There has been some debate on the issue of whether or not the springs on the MP3 are Racing Beat or not. If you go to their website, they mention that they gave Mazda a car with their springs and other goodies. They also mention that Mazda chose not to use all of the stuff they put on. Later, in the parts section they mention that Mazda chose not to use the Racing Beat springs, but rather, OEM springs with Racing Beat spring rates. Also, in the for sale section, the website lists the Racing Beat Springs as a .75-.875 inch drop on the ES, LX, MP3.
The MP3 also appears much lower with all of the ground effects. I guess the only way to tell is to email Racing Beat and get the real story. Either way, the GCs might be better for me, as I don't think a .75 inch drop is going to be very noticable.
Justin,
So installing them yourself is pretty easy eh? I just worry cause I have little to no mechanical experience (oil changes, replaced a water pump once!
). Are the GCs pretty well documented for install? Thanks man!
Chris
There has been some debate on the issue of whether or not the springs on the MP3 are Racing Beat or not. If you go to their website, they mention that they gave Mazda a car with their springs and other goodies. They also mention that Mazda chose not to use all of the stuff they put on. Later, in the parts section they mention that Mazda chose not to use the Racing Beat springs, but rather, OEM springs with Racing Beat spring rates. Also, in the for sale section, the website lists the Racing Beat Springs as a .75-.875 inch drop on the ES, LX, MP3.
The MP3 also appears much lower with all of the ground effects. I guess the only way to tell is to email Racing Beat and get the real story. Either way, the GCs might be better for me, as I don't think a .75 inch drop is going to be very noticable.
Justin,
So installing them yourself is pretty easy eh? I just worry cause I have little to no mechanical experience (oil changes, replaced a water pump once!
). Are the GCs pretty well documented for install? Thanks man!Chris
April-8th-2002, 10:25 AM
#5
Protege God
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Evanston, IL
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You're both correct. The MP3 springs are not exacty the same as the Racing Beat springs. The MP3 springs are 16% stiffer than stock in front, and 19% stiffer than stock in the rear. They don't provide quite as much lowering as the RacingBeat springs either. The Racing Beat springs are 21% stiffer than stock front and rear. Neither one will lower any Protege enough to get rid of all the wheel well gap.
April-8th-2002, 11:46 AM
#6
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Eric,
So do you think the RBs will lower me at all (as in .75 inches)? I read one of your earlier posts on GCs main purpose being lowering the car, not handling. I would like to maintain good handling and maybe get a noticable drop. I wonder if the RBs will do this for me. I would think .75 inches would be somewhat noticable. Thanks man!
Chris
So do you think the RBs will lower me at all (as in .75 inches)? I read one of your earlier posts on GCs main purpose being lowering the car, not handling. I would like to maintain good handling and maybe get a noticable drop. I wonder if the RBs will do this for me. I would think .75 inches would be somewhat noticable. Thanks man!
Chris
April-8th-2002, 12:35 PM
#7
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Racing Beat claims their springs will lower the car .85 inches. If you do not change the tire or wheel size, that's exactly what will happen. The gap between the wheel and fender will aslo be reduced by this amount.
If you go with the MP3 wheel and tire combination as I did - from 195/55/15 to 205/45/17, this will also change your fender gap. Since the tire is larger there will be less gap. This also means that the car sits higher off of the ground, and the car will end up being very close to stock in ride height after spring instalation- with larger rims and tires. By the way, most people on this board seems to go with 40 series tires on their 17" rims, which keeps the outer tire diameter exactly the same as stock.
As a side note, my new wheels have a higher offset that my old ones. This causes the wheel to fender gap to be more noticable, even though the gap is actually smaller. Hopefully when I get the Racing Beat springs, this effect will go away.
If you go with the MP3 wheel and tire combination as I did - from 195/55/15 to 205/45/17, this will also change your fender gap. Since the tire is larger there will be less gap. This also means that the car sits higher off of the ground, and the car will end up being very close to stock in ride height after spring instalation- with larger rims and tires. By the way, most people on this board seems to go with 40 series tires on their 17" rims, which keeps the outer tire diameter exactly the same as stock.
As a side note, my new wheels have a higher offset that my old ones. This causes the wheel to fender gap to be more noticable, even though the gap is actually smaller. Hopefully when I get the Racing Beat springs, this effect will go away.
April-8th-2002, 09:45 PM
#8
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The .875" lowering is in relation to the stock Protege ride height, not the MP3. The Racing Beat springs will lower the MP3 more than it is with the MP3 springs, but not dramatically. I do think the Racing Beat springs will provide a better overall experience for ride and handling than the ground controls. The spring rate is a better match for the stock MP3 struts.
April-8th-2002, 10:34 PM
#9
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It all been said but...
The spring rates for the MP3 springs and the Racing Beat springs should be the same.
The Racing Beat springs should lower the car more than the MP3 springs do. The difference in stiffness is for the difference in ride height.
That's about it...
The Racing Beat springs should lower the car more than the MP3 springs do. The difference in stiffness is for the difference in ride height.
That's about it...
April-8th-2002, 10:47 PM
#10
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Originally posted by Doomer_MP3
Eric,
So do you think the RBs will lower me at all (as in .75 inches)? I read one of your earlier posts on GCs main purpose being lowering the car, not handling. I would like to maintain good handling and maybe get a noticable drop. I wonder if the RBs will do this for me. I would think .75 inches would be somewhat noticable. Thanks man!
Chris
Eric,
So do you think the RBs will lower me at all (as in .75 inches)? I read one of your earlier posts on GCs main purpose being lowering the car, not handling. I would like to maintain good handling and maybe get a noticable drop. I wonder if the RBs will do this for me. I would think .75 inches would be somewhat noticable. Thanks man!
Chris
GC is one of the leading manufacturers of *real* race car suspension parts in the U.S. Their coilovers use universal Eibach 2.5" diameter springs, which you can order in any spring rate you want (in 25 lb/ft increments).This can get you into trouble, though. Since the springs are interchangeable, you can order anything from Buick soft to World Challange race car stiff
If you just tell them "I wanna slam my car, but I don't want it to ride too bad" they send you soft springs, and your handling goes out the window. Call Ground Control, talk to Jay Morris and tell him you want it stiff enough to handle. Just make sure you tell him you DON'T want it stiff enough to go road racing. Your car will ride like it has no suspension
April-9th-2002, 09:34 AM
#11
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Re: It all been said but...
??? What? First you say the spring rates are the same, then you say the difference in stiffness is for the difference in ride height. The spring rates are not the same, and yes, the Racing Beats are slightly stiffer likely to compensate for the slight additional lowering compared to the MP3 springs.
Originally posted by StuttersC
The spring rates for the MP3 springs and the Racing Beat springs should be the same.
The Racing Beat springs should lower the car more than the MP3 springs do. The difference in stiffness is for the difference in ride height.
That's about it...
The spring rates for the MP3 springs and the Racing Beat springs should be the same.
The Racing Beat springs should lower the car more than the MP3 springs do. The difference in stiffness is for the difference in ride height.
That's about it...
April-9th-2002, 09:49 AM
#12
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Location: Evanston, IL
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Chris,
Can the Ground Control coil-over kit be ordered with whatever spring rate you want, or do they specify a spring rate for the application? Of course they use standard 2.5" inner diameter springs, which can be ordered in almost any 25lb/inch increment and many different lengths. They are useful for the variety of springs rates available and the ability to balance the corner weights of the vehicle. Most people that buy them however, use them primarily for extreme lowering of the vehicle, which doesn't improve the cars handling or ride in most cases.
A much better option IMO would be the true coil-over struts available from Mazda Motorsports that were built by AWR. They feature a stronger than stock, shortened, threaded strut tube with Bilstein inserts and 2.5" inner diameter springs. This is more expensive, but has several advantages to the slip on Ground Controls. Stronger strut tubes to withstand stiffer spring and strut rates. Better quality, higher damping rate Bilstein strut inserts to match the stiffer spring rates. Shortened strut body to maintain compression travel with lower ride height. Better fit and less noise with threaded strut tubes rather than sleeves that slide over the stock strut tubes.
Can the Ground Control coil-over kit be ordered with whatever spring rate you want, or do they specify a spring rate for the application? Of course they use standard 2.5" inner diameter springs, which can be ordered in almost any 25lb/inch increment and many different lengths. They are useful for the variety of springs rates available and the ability to balance the corner weights of the vehicle. Most people that buy them however, use them primarily for extreme lowering of the vehicle, which doesn't improve the cars handling or ride in most cases.
A much better option IMO would be the true coil-over struts available from Mazda Motorsports that were built by AWR. They feature a stronger than stock, shortened, threaded strut tube with Bilstein inserts and 2.5" inner diameter springs. This is more expensive, but has several advantages to the slip on Ground Controls. Stronger strut tubes to withstand stiffer spring and strut rates. Better quality, higher damping rate Bilstein strut inserts to match the stiffer spring rates. Shortened strut body to maintain compression travel with lower ride height. Better fit and less noise with threaded strut tubes rather than sleeves that slide over the stock strut tubes.
Originally posted by carguycw
Ground Control coilovers are most definitely handling oriented if you know what to ask for GC is one of the leading manufacturers of *real* race car suspension parts in the U.S. Their coilovers use universal Eibach 2.5" diameter springs, which you can order in any spring rate you want (in 25 lb/ft increments).
This can get you into trouble, though. Since the springs are interchangeable, you can order anything from Buick soft to World Challange race car stiff If you just tell them "I wanna slam my car, but I don't want it to ride too bad" they send you soft springs, and your handling goes out the window. Call Ground Control, talk to Jay Morris and tell him you want it stiff enough to handle. Just make sure you tell him you DON'T want it stiff enough to go road racing. Your car will ride like it has no suspension
Ground Control coilovers are most definitely handling oriented if you know what to ask for
GC is one of the leading manufacturers of *real* race car suspension parts in the U.S. Their coilovers use universal Eibach 2.5" diameter springs, which you can order in any spring rate you want (in 25 lb/ft increments).This can get you into trouble, though. Since the springs are interchangeable, you can order anything from Buick soft to World Challange race car stiff
If you just tell them "I wanna slam my car, but I don't want it to ride too bad" they send you soft springs, and your handling goes out the window. Call Ground Control, talk to Jay Morris and tell him you want it stiff enough to handle. Just make sure you tell him you DON'T want it stiff enough to go road racing. Your car will ride like it has no suspension
April-9th-2002, 09:58 AM
#13
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Well after all of this, I'm thinking I might just go with H&R springs since they do 1.3" all around, and are cheaper than GCs. Like I said, I don't want anything really low, just a little to close some of that gap. The GCs would probably be overkill since I wouldn't ever lower the car to the max of what GCs can actually do. Thanks for everybody's opinions!
Chris
Chris
April-9th-2002, 12:52 PM
#15
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My opinion is worth two cents...
I had my Escort lowered onto Eibachs which dropped 1" in the back, 1.5" in the front...The ride was nice but at the same time I wish it was lower.
I have Ground Controls on my Protege, you can adjust anywhere from .5" to 3". I paid about $150 extra, but having the ability to adjust my ride to the height I want it at anytime is a BIG plus. Just because you get the coilovers doesn't mean you have to slam your car.
When you put the springs on and don't like the height, you're stuck, you'll see what I mean. You seem to just as interested in looks as handling, I'd personally get the coilovers. Lower the car an inch, one day if you feel like being lower, take 10 minutes and screw the spring perch down a couple turns. That simple.
I had my Escort lowered onto Eibachs which dropped 1" in the back, 1.5" in the front...The ride was nice but at the same time I wish it was lower.
I have Ground Controls on my Protege, you can adjust anywhere from .5" to 3". I paid about $150 extra, but having the ability to adjust my ride to the height I want it at anytime is a BIG plus. Just because you get the coilovers doesn't mean you have to slam your car.
When you put the springs on and don't like the height, you're stuck, you'll see what I mean. You seem to just as interested in looks as handling, I'd personally get the coilovers. Lower the car an inch, one day if you feel like being lower, take 10 minutes and screw the spring perch down a couple turns. That simple.