Phyba Optikz

whats up people

i own a 2000 mazda protege ES. i recently lowered it with itrax lowering springs. i noticed that after we did the springs, the steering wheel was off center, but thats isn't nothing an alignment can't fix. my question is, CAMBER? i noticed that when i took off my front wheels, 17 inch focal f10's to replace them with my new rims and tires, i noticed that the tire had more wear on the inner part of the tire. would this be something an alignment shop would be able to fix, is this bad camber? can they adjust it, or is it something else?

thanks

Phyba Optikz

well

do you think if i get an alignemtn done, that would all be corrected? i didn't think it would be the camber because i looked at a friends of mine protege, and we put the same exact sprigns on his and his is fine. just mine is wearing on the inner side of the tire and his steering wheel is straight. i'ma just take it in for a alignment, get it all adjusted. hopefully that will solve my problem.

Phyba Optikz

shouidln't i have some toe in? or toe out?

if its at zero, or neutral, wouldn't my car jsut drive all over the road. shouldn't the front 2 tires kinda point in at each other, like they are fighting, to keep the car straight.?

Phyba Optikz

cool

thanks man

i'll see what happens.

zeus

I don't know Jesse; every car I've ever owned would wander all over with zero toe. Constant steering input would be required to hold a straight line. This of course is fine on the track, but for the street I'd have to recommend at least a little in the front. Zero in the rear is proper though.

Sir Nuke

have the shop put in ever how much the stock alignment SHOULD have....your tires will be fine...and it will steer the way it should....

just ensure they do a FOUR WHEEL ALIGNMENT

Phyba Optikz

ya

thats what i thought. i'll see what happens after i get teh alignment.

Eric F

Positive caster should keep the wheels going straight ahead. Very slight toe in is used by the factory sometimes, but caster is a better method. It will all be adjusted with a good alignment.

Phyba Optikz

i just got my car aligned, and the dude was like my toe was fucked up. it was off by like 6 tenths of a degree. might not sound like much but it was 6 times over on each tire over the factory specs. camber was still pretty much close to the recomended specs.

other than that, the rest was fine. that explains all that crazy wear on my front tires.

zeus

The reason I say a bit of toe in is best, is because most front end linkage has some give in it, so at speed there is a natural tendency for the wheels to want to toe out, and the car will feel like it wants to wander. And I’m speaking of a static toe measurement here. If a rolling toe measment is used, then for sure zero is correct. Also if you keep things tight up front and there isn’t any wear in the joints, then zero toe would probably be OK. But, I’ve already noticed some slop in the tie rod ends on my car with 15K miles, and a little static toe in works best for me. I set it by feel and watch tire wear, so I really don’t know how much there is, probably about 1/32” over tire dia.

In my opinion caster won’t help keep a car from wandering. It is where you would go to correct a tendency to pull one way or the other though. Assuming camber is set even on both sides, adjusting right caster out about a ¼ degree further than the left will compesate for the crown of the road, and help keep it straight in that off camber condition. Beyond that, caster pretty much sets the ability of the car to keep its tire’s foot print maximized in sharp conering. A consideration when changing tire width and profile. Changing caster angle can also effect the car’s turn in, and messing with it can lead to complications by also altering trailing distance. It doesn’t take much to create a nasty shopping cart situation with some cars. I’ve found the caster on my Pro to be just right after lowering and scratched my plans of reworking it.

I specialized in 4WD lift and alignment for a few years and got to know suspenssion geometry pretty good. I’ve also been tuning sports cars since the mid 70’s – I had a love of X19s but can’t remember why. From my experience, I can say an alignment shop will usually just align to either the factory’s or their own specs (with a wide tollerance too) just to keep the customer satisfied with minimal effort. This seldom results in optimum handling or tire wear, but that’s probably because they sell tires too. Life time alignment my ***!

I thoroughly advocate learning alignment techniques and doing it yourself. I think a lot of people would be surprized at how good a job can be done with some string, tape, fishing weights and a keen eye. Or, for the cost of a single alignment, you can buy a laser bullit level and make the job even easier and more accurate. One just has to understand the characteristics of handling and tire wear, and know what adjustment to make to change them. That’s the only reason I throw this crap out. Hope it helps someone.