Brake pads & rotors - what do you suggest?
 

Hey folks.
I am in the midst of making a decision on what I want to do with the brakes. I don't have a grand or more to blow on a big brake kit, SS lines, etc. But, when it comes time for a new set of pads, I want whatever I do to be an improvement. I was considering the following:

1) Cross drilled and slotted rotors (perhaps Brembo), F+R
2) New pads all the way around

Ok, so here is where I am at. I have read a lot on the rotors, and have found that in many cases the performance benefits cannot be realized outside of the track. Stock rotors apparently cool sufficiently, due to their mass. The benefits of holes and slots in expunging hot surface gases and removing dust film is hard to tell on the street from what I understand. But, slotted and drilled rotors are said to often accelerate brake pad wear. Is it worth the extra cost? I think not. I did a little research, and very few performance cars come with them. Not even costly tuner rides. You would think that a Dinan-prepped BMW M5 would have them, if it was that great of a benefit. But, if I am mistaken on this, please tell me. Otherwise, there is no purpose for me sharing my thoughts on the matter in this thread. I can only speculate, based on what I have learned thus far.

The other thing I have a question on is pads. I want something that offers slightly better than OEM performance, but doesn't cover my wheels in black dust or cause a great deal of wear to the rotors. I've heard good things about Hawk pads, but I've heard they create a lot of dust.

I do not expect Ferrari levels of braking from changing just these simple components. Honestly, if I was serious about maximum braking performance, there would be a lot more work and cost ahead of me. But what I am looking for is perhaps a modest improvement, with little sacrifice in durability, noise, dirt, and cost. Suggestions are much appreciated!

would you pay $350 for a big brake kit, i have a set on ebay for $280 right now

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

ebay

yesh Chris' kit at $350 is awesome! If you just want stock size rotors though I can set you up. Either way you go you're not losing out. For daily driving advantages Chris' kit may be better.

does this mean that the mazda speed calipers DO fit the protege5??

are you gonna e racing it????? if not then stock ones are just fine.

Holy sh*t! That's awesome! Any chance these brakes fit with excess clearance in the stock sixteen inch rims, no prob? I may just have to make a purchase if they do....For everything else there is Mastercard.

Okay, a couple questions on this big brake kit:
1) Is this a product usually in inventory? In otherwords, if it "goes" on E-Bay, can I order one at any time?
2) The calipers are from a MSP. But, who makes the rotors?
3) What brand of pads are included?
4) Is there any need to purchase additional hardware, or is everything needed included in the kit?
5) What performance benefits do you claim or have experienced? I know it is going to be better than stock, I just want to know how dramatic the difference is going to be.

1.yea i have 3 sets after those are gone it will only take a few days to get them back in stock.

2.the rotors are made for us by centric we have them slotted and drilled by powerslot

3.the pads are axxis and are $38

4.everything is in the kit

5.it out brakes my rx7 with 4 piston claipers and hawk pads, my 80-0 stops scare the shit out of most people

i run 17" MSP wheels but you cna see there is pleanty of room still

When I'm on the track (high speed touring) in the P5 I run Hawk pads with my PowerSlot rotors (fronts only) and I have no issues with braking or fading. However, the Hawks squall like crazy and create that lovely dust so we remove them and put the OEM pads back on for everyday driving.

Squeels like a stuck pig, would you say?

Something along those lines...yes :bigthumb: I have Cobalt Friction pads on the Miata and they are squeally too, aka "high performance", but damn...they are the shizzle for mad stopping powa yO! :smoke:

Mad powa, yo? How did we go from my barn yard analogy to the 'hood?

Seriously, though. How has wear been with these pads? And noise? And rotor wear? Those were some of my main concerns going into this brake thread.

Noise from the Hawks is bad IMO. I would not recommend them for daily driving. We had trouble getting the Hawk pads to 'seat' on the rotors and it shows. Perhaps you'll have better luck with them (?) If I was going to run my car next year I would definitely get some SS brake lines, and maybe some BIG brakes if I had extra $$ in my pocket. :) Good luck with your quest!

yea i had a set of the hawks before i got the big brakes and the brakes dust drove me crazy along witht he squeaking

Hi guys!

My two cents:

There are two ways to increase braking efficiency-Change the rotor size or change the pad compound. That is really about it. Slots, dimples and holes are bad news in a stock size rotor as they do not disapate the heat more quickly, rather they reduce the mass of the heat sink and end up warping very quickly. Really, on a stock size rotor they are eye candy.

I like the hawks-run them myself. I started out with the EBC's and really didn't have a good experience with them. Loud and very dusty. True, the hawks are still squeaky when cold, but if you want higher friction you pretty much have to live with it.

With the best,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Wes.

I do agree that larger rotors are best but the drilling on my stock-sized rotors certainly help cool them off faster. I have felt stock rotors doing brake jobs and minutes later they are still scalding but seconds after stopping my car I can touch and hold the rotors with no problems. Anything you do to pull heat out of the rotor will help it.

p.s. I guess I could get out my laser thermometer and do some comparitive tests.

In my experience I have to agree with Wes. Most rotors that are drilled tend to warp or crack. Slotted if you must have something is the way to go. People have always seemed to think...."Well Porsche has theirs drilled." so its got be ok. The process of making cross drilled rotors is something of an art. Drilling after the rotors have been made is bad news, and thats what most places do.

I am interested in this kit, but only if it can come with standard rotors and not CD, or slotted.

PM'd you.
Joe

we have them cross drilled and slotted by powerslot so they are done by the pro's, we also cyro teated them as well, i canget the rotors any way you would like though

powerslot is owned by brembo! thats awesome!

good, im not the only one to think that way...is there anyone who casts their brakes with holes?


one more question, how does SS brake lines help?

I assume that since stainless lines flex much less, less force is spent flexing the lines, and more is spent applying the pads to the rotors. Correct?

While warping and cracking are a definite concern on the track, I also would assume that on the street, the drilled/ vented rotors ought to work just fine.

If I was racing, I would be very concerned about cracking and warping. But, you just don't get that kind of severe use on most public roads. Increased pad wear is a concern, but if you don't tailgate people to death and practice a little engine braking when coming to a stop, you can make your pads last a long time.

i don't think anybody beats on brakes as hard as me, i'll let you know after a few more track days

chris, would it be cheaper to get just the msp rotors from you undrilled and unslotted? i'd like them cryogened though.

yea it would be cheaper if you just wanted them blank

oh sweet! i'll be saving up then. look for me by june! thanks chris!

i hope you dont mind me being curious this often, but what do you mean by cryogened?

Remember back in Star Wars, when Hans Solo was cast into that solid black object and kept by Jabba the Hutt as a trophy? It's kinda like that, sans the wookie.

AH! ok, thanks. that helps the braking?

Honestly, isn't cryo a process in which the part is hardened by introducing more carbon into the surface of the steel, via vapor? By introducing more carbon into the areas between metal grains (interstital zones), the hardness of the material increases.

You could also heat treat rotors via a traditional hardening method - bringing the material up to red hot, and quenching it (submerging in hot oil) to rapidly cool it. This results in small grains, which means that the material will be harder and less prone to wear (but also more brittle overall).

Proper treatment will result in a part that is reasonably hard, but not so brittle that it will crack if a surface flaw develops. There is some engineering in designing a proper heat treating process, but if anyone is curious, I do have the formulas handy.

... by formulas, I mean temperature, quenching method, and time necessary.

The big thing to keep in mind, and I am NOT saying these rotors wont hold up, or they are crap. What I am saying is anytime you make something there is a certain flow in the grain or the metals. If you start to drill or remove that metal it affects the structural integrity of the item. Ferrari, Porsche, and other major companies that use slotted of Cross drilled brake use a casting method that the holes are there from day one. Thats the strongest way to get them done.

Cryo Treated brakes are definitly a great thing. The dont prevent the cracks but they can make one a lot less evident. I have seen cryo treated rotors crack, and none cryo ones crack....the noncryo treated are always worst.

Joe

it's part of the heat treat cycle. they bring it up to temp, then bring it down to a really cold temperature in order to increase strength. most metals show increasing strength as it is cooled to a temperature that is as close to absolute zero (-273 Kelvins or -546 degrees celcius) as possible. this is better than just dipping the metal in hot oil or hot water, so they dip it in a very cold substance. since it'll be cost ineffective to go below the temperature of liquid nitrogen, current cryogen technology uses liquid nitrogen. in the end, it increases the life of the rotors and helps it resist warping, cracking, etc. that occurs when you're hard on your brakes. most competitive racing has at least a few people who work with cryogenically treated brakes.

i love my physical chemistry class. we just learned about this last week.

yeah, cryogenics introduces increased carbon lattice structures which are very strong. it has been shown that most metals like to be quenched to a very low temperature in order to increase its strength. at least that was what i was told.

where can you get these cryo brakes at?

through chris at spd racing. he posted on this thread. his name is FC3s Boy.

... the science and engineering of materials is a beautiful thing indeed.

his MSP big brake kit is an awesome upgrade for anyone interested in better stopping power!! I plan on getting a set a little later cause Truc and I are going to meet up in Mid-Ohio and run 'em!!