slikpro

I'm stuck with what combination to use.

I currently have 236mm up front with stock pads. Here goes.



1st option:

236mm (9.2 inches) Cross Drilled Rotors with Hawk Brake Pads from KVRPerformance.com
$160.00 Rotors and $80.00 Pads. plus shipping.


2nd option:

259mm (10.2 inches) Stock ES Rotors with ES Calipers, and stock ES Brake Pads from Mazdaformance.com These are all OEM Mazda Parts, ES Rotors, ES Caliper Assy. and ES Pads $260.00 Shipped



I'm not interested in saving money, I want to make a technical decision based on which is better in all around performance.

Thanks in advance for your tech. advice
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slikpro

Forgot to mention, I currently have 15" wheels and my car is a 4 lug with drums at the rear.

Thanks
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carguycw

OK, if I were strictly sticking to the 2 options in the first post, I would get the ES kit, but I would call Mazdaformance.com and see if they'll leave the stock pads out. Then I would order some Hawk HPS pads ($47 from the Tire Rack) or Porterfield R4S pads ($69, more than Hawks but slightly better pads IMHO). I would also make sure to use good brake fluid (see the FAQ). This setup should improve your braking performance while utilizing your stock wheels.

A couple of other minor notes:
(1) Call Mazda and check if the ES uses the same brake proportioning valve as the DX/LX. If it has a different parts number, the ES probably uses different diameter pistons in the front calipers, and using the stock DX/LX valve will screw up the front/rear brake bias and hurt performance. All 99-00 North American Pros have the same rear drum brakes, so the stock ES valve should work fine.
(2) If you are considering stainless steel braided brake lines, the time to install them is now. You will have to completely bleed the whole brake system if you install new calipers, and IMHO this is such a PITA that doing it all at once is worth considering.

Cross-drilled rotors are a cosmetic mod that does nothing for performance. Upsizing to ES rotors will provide a REAL improvement in brake cooling and performance.

slikpro

I called mazdaformance up and true, there is a diferent part number for that valve. What does this mean? Do I need to change the Booster and everything related to the ES? How drastic of a diference would it be leaving the stock valve and booster.

I'm not doing this upgrade for racing, it started out as a cosmetic thing, but since it is not cheap, I might as well do something that works. I would not mind having extra braking power as well as less fade during prolonged use.

I will definitely install the stainless steel lines and use quality brake fluid. For sure I will go with the Hawk pads as well.

I sent a message to a fellow member regarding this issue, he pretty much did the same thing except he used drilled rotors with the stock ES caliper. He is also selling these items, I think they are sold though. Now I'm wondering if this is why he sold them in the first place.

Thanks for your replies, I will post info as I learn
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carguycw

I would *definitely* change the valve. It determines the brake pressure balance from front to rear. Here's an explanation.

http://dsr.racer.net/brake_bias.htm

Changing the valve will keep the front and rear brakes balanced correctly. This will optimize your stopping distances and keep the rear brakes from locking prematurely (which is very very bad).

Are the booster and master cylinder on the ES different, too? If so, this is a harder question to answer. If the ES uses larger diameter caliper pistons (which I almost guarantee it does) it probably also uses a larger master cylinder to reduce pedal travel, and a larger booster to make the brake pedal effort lower.

Here's the summary:
(1) Using a DX/LX booster and M/C with the ES brakes will probably result in more pedal travel (i.e. pedal goes in farther before the brakes work, and feels "mushier"). However, how much travel is too much is a matter of personal preference A good way to find out is to try it and be prepared to swap more parts
(2) Using an ES M/C and brakes with a DX/LX booster will fix the pedal travel problem but the brake pedal will be hard to push. Again, it's personal preference whether this is a problem Actually, the ES M/C may not fit the DX/LX booster anyways so this may be a moot point.
(3) I would NOT use an ES booster with the DX/LX M/C. This will result in an obnoxiously light and mushy brake pedal. It will make your brakes feel like a 60's GM car with power brakes- the pedal moves through 2-3 inches of mush and then it grabs and your face hits the windshield Don't go there.

Hope this helps!

slikpro

And I thought this was easy as changing oil.

Mazdaformance did say that the booster had diferent part numbers. I didn't even ask on that price.

I think I might just wait to find a donor car in my area someday. It just really makes sense that each part does interact with each other, last thing that I want is to have brake problems in the future.

Or I will try the kvrperformance 9.2 inch drilled rotors at least. They have them in stock, and tirerack has the hawk pads for about 80.00 bucks in stock as well. I'm still searching for the stainless brake lines though. Tirerack has the kit but for 4 wheel disc.

I'm usually not hard with my brakes, heck, I still have the stock rear shoes. Here in San Diego there is so much stop and go traffic on a daily basis that after maybe 45 minutes I feel I need to push a little harder. Plus, I think the clutch is working off the same fluid, therefore both clutch and brakes get hot quickly increasing pedal effort.

I will be in touch if I find new info.
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tradr

I switched to the ES calipers + KVR cross drilled rotors + stock ES pads this weekend using valvoline dot 4 synthetic brake/clutch fluid.

My findings (unofficial so don't go by them)..

The pedal goes to the floor *a little more* but not alarmingly much.

The brakes grab much better from higher speeds.. ie if you're going 60 to 20 to go into a corner.. in fact the brakes aren't all that easy to lock up still (probably in part because of the DX master cylinder size).

Uhh, more findings later. It's only been one day since I swapped the brakes