fat.elvis

You are kidding, right? A Geo Metro is probably barely slower than a TDI. It's a Turbo Diesel !!!!!!

eggynatey

I read that article in SCC and you're right, The Mazdaspeed is the Champ!
Then, to ice the cake, R&T found that only the hand-built Lotus could keep up...
All that drive train adds a LOT of weight on the AWD cars!

phat_mats

you mean the independant rear suspension that squeeks and makes noise 24/7 over every bump ... just playin they are both good cars, but both have their problems

Installshield

The center of gravity part is correct but the chassis needs a lot more work to meet that of a Protege. I test drove a 2.5RS before buying my p5 and all the rumors of Impreza's vague steering feel and numb handling are correct. Even the WRX isn't an amazing handler without expensive suspension upgrades...

And about SCC, everything mentioned is true, but in favor of Road and Track's MP3 time, I think that is a little more realistic. The 72mph MSP slalom in SCC was on shaved tires, which will not be on the "production" car, and certainly didn't hurt its cornering power. Don't get me wrong I still think it is the best FWD car money can buy, but that slalom run was a little biased...

Installshield

Yeah man it rides like a skateboard...

leungwingkei

I think slalom speeds are only somewhat reliable. Look in several magazines and you will notic large differences in slalom speeds since each driver has different skills in handling each car.

An amateur may go through the slalom at 60mph and call it the limit of the car, whereas a pro will take the same car and thread it through at 70mph, which is much closer to the "actual" limit of the car.

Slalom speed figures cannot be entirely trusted

Installshield

good point however it is good to compare results from the same mag. Most major mags will average the speed with several different drivers. SCC usually has some pretty optimistic slalom speeds, while Motor Trends are usually a little slower. Not sure why, but I trust Road and Track the most. They seem pretty determined to keep everything unbiased and true...

jstand6

I would throw a lot of weight into the Road & Track article. The vehicles were tested on the same day, on the same track, in the same weather conditions, by the same driver, and with the use of calibrated instruments.

onehawaiian

the lancer is still ugly.

Installshield

Indeed, that corporate North American Mitsubishi front they are putting on the newer cars looks like hell. It looks like a bird beek or something jutting off the front...

carguycw

I agree with your assessment of the WRX/2.5RS; IMHO their suspension is tuned to be predictable, easy to drive and have a reasonably good ride, but they are a little too mushy for dry track use. Also, keep in mind that although a lower center of gravity is good, these cars have 2 serious disadvantages when compared to Protege (and most other small, sporty FWD cars)- a LOT more weight (~3,100 lbs) and a higher polar moment of intertia due to the AWD hardware in the back of the car.

David

you shouldn't talk with shi.. in your mouth.

carguycw

I have always treated slalom tests with skepticism for this exact reason. Testing a car on a slalom is unrealistic because it doesn't always reward the car that handles the best overall; it rewards the car with the most PREDICTABLE handling in quick back-and-forth transitions. The cars that get good slalom results are usually the ones that are *easiest to drive* in this particular situation, which usually means u-n-d-e-r-s-t-e-e-r. I'm not talking about severe, tire-scrubbing understeer (a la stock Toyota Corolla), but enough understeer to keep the car from changing directions quickly in *real world* situations. Cars that are more neutral can often be hard to control in a long, fast slalom with a journalist at the wheel.

Good examples...
(1) The all-time slalom record at R&T was held for a very long time by... the Mercedes SLK 2.3L. It this because they have all-around awesome handling? No- almost every magazine has complained about their inferior handling, largely due to *excessive understeer.*
(2) Miatas have historically had mediocre slalom results in the magazines, but will destroy almost anything on the road when it changing directions quickly in the *real world.* This is because of mild lift-throttle oversteer and a very responsive chassis, which makes the car easy to maneuver in real corners, but makes the car a handful in a fast slalom with an inexperienced driver.

BTW I'm not trying to bash the MSP here; I'm just pointing out that you can't declare a car's handling superior to another's based on this very narrow-minded test. There is NO way to accurately quantify a car's handling in a simple, repeatable magazine test. Slalom and skidpad tests both have built-in bias that doesn't accurately represent what a car can do on real roads.

pingdum

I could not agree more

pingdum

Someone should start a thread, which is uglier: Lancer Evo...Neon SRT...or Sentra Spec V